WHY CAN'T I MAKE RESERVATIONS FURTHER IN ADVANCE?
WHY CAN'T I MAKE RESERVATIONS FURTHER IN ADVANCE?
Schedule Planning Department members are used to being asked questions. Usually, it's "What's the next new city?" or "When are we going to add nonstop service from X to Y?" Of course, we can't give direct answers, as we have to protect the confidentiality of our growth plans. In fact, we've learned to tap dance our way around those types of questions better than the cast of 42nd Street. However, one question we do get asked repeatedly is why Southwest doesn't allow Customers to make reservations further in advance. I can easily (and happily) de-mystify that one! It really boils down to one, very simple reason: we don't like to confirm a reservation to a Customer, and then have to change their schedule.
As all of us know, the farther you look out into the future, the harder it is to make accurate predictions. TV Weathermen have trouble telling us what it's going to be like outside tomorrow much less ten or eleven months from now. Because the airline industry is as chaotic as the weather and in a constant state of flux, we can only predict with a high degree of certainty what our Corporate, and our Customers', schedule needs will be up to roughly six months in advance. Therefore, we publish our schedule and allow bookings only up to about 180 days in advance--six months of inventory, if you will. After we publish, we let the clock tick down, day by day, until we have about 120 days worth of inventory left to sell, at which point we publish another "block" of schedules and push the inventory back up to about 180 days. On rare occasion (and we're in one now) the inventory can drop as low as 90 days, and on even rarer occasions we'll have more than 180 days available--but the general goal is to keep between 120 to 180 days of inventory for sale. Outside of that six-month timeframe, we're free to make whatever schedule changes we need to in order to remain competitive, maintain operational excellence, and give our Customers the Freedom to Fly all over America.
If we were to allow bookings as much as a year in advance--in effect, before our plans were solid--we would have to make changes to many, if not most, of those longrange reservations. Nobody likes that outcome. For one thing, it's expensive to spend the time and resources to notify Customers whose itineraries have changed. Second, and worse yet, depending on what we changed in the schedule, we couldn't always rebook changed reservations onto replacement itineraries at similar times. Not that we haven't thought about this issue, many times, at great length. We've repeatedly examined the benefit of extending the booking "window," and each time we've found that in general, very, very few Customers would take advantage of booking flights ten or eleven months from today. So by allowing bookings further in advance than we now do, we'd be setting up a potentially very disruptive chain of events that really would not provide a significant benefit for either our Customers or our Company.
We think our existing policy strikes a great balance between offering Customers the ability to confirm their travels far enough ahead of time to suit most of their needs, and allowing Southwest to keep our costs low and our flexibility high to respond to changes in the marketplace. So remember the "120/180 rule" for future bookings on Southwest. We will usually make up to 180 days of inventory available for sale, then allow that booking window to tick down to 120 days-then "recharge" the booking window by putting another 60 days or so of salable inventory out there, taking the total days available back up to around 180. But if you keep this general rule in mind, it'll provide a good yardstick to see where Southwest stands in with respect to the booking window.
Hopefully this will help "de-mystify" planning future travel on Southwest. Keep the questions, and the comments, coming! And feel free to ask me or anyone in the Schedule Planning Department what the next new markets are going to be. We can't tell you....but we do a mean soft-shoe.
Comments
Bill,
I understand where you guys are coming from, and for myself, your reasonings make sense, but for many of the less frequent WN (erm, I mean SWA ;) ) travelers I know, many of them hate having to guess when a new schedule will come out. Sadly, many of them lose patience during a time like this when the schedule is so short because they are tired of 'looking for booking' everyday (I do it, I'll admit, I've got some summer travel that if I don't book soon I'm not going to be able to book).
Have you guys ever considered releasing new schedules on a set basis (like the first day of every fiscal quarter?) or sending advances notice to RR Update subscribers so the loyalist customers know when they can get the lowest fares? I know you DING! and send out an email after the fact, but by then the lowest fares are usually sold out...
Anyone wanting a non-official guess about schedule extension can try these two links: http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3943308&postcount=20 and http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527240 (and skip to the most recent post).
Bill, I have one other question. Most schedule extensions happen shortly after 10 AM Central Time on Thursdays. What's magic about Thursday morning?
Maybe i need to re-read that post. I am confused?? How does this save you money? I would think that the more bookings you have the more money you would have in advance. The other airlines, while barely profitable allow you to book several months in advance. Also, it is true that when you offer only a limited amount of seats, all of the low fares get sold out in a matter of minutes. Perhaps you can give me more insight. Also, i want to know... Why is it more expensive to fly from SAN-ABQ, then SAN-BWI? BWI is a bigger airport, but i just do not get it??
Francisco
It is sometimes guess work--predicting how much business you will have a few months in advance. I worked in the hotel business and noticed the same thing. I naturally wonder what it costs to schedule further ahead than five months or so.
Is there some pressing reason for making a reservation further in advance?
Bill,
I understand what SW is doing and I really appreciate you letting us know how it works, but we are already past the 120 days what is the hold up? It is really frustrating when you are trying to make plans and cannot make reservations. It is to the point that I may have to use another airline.
This major issue I have is that I've been trying to book tickets since early December as a gift for my husband. The intention is to fly to Houston for his birthday. We would go May 12 - 17. So I've been waiting well over a month for the booking dates to expand a WEEK.... and in that time I have missed out on several deals. At one point I would have been able to get the round trip for roughly $370.00 now it's up to over $400. (i'm figuring this by seeing what it would be to book a week earlier.) So as a couple who isn't swimming in the cash this is getting to be a tidge frustrating. It's either to the point where we go to another airline, greyhound, drive, or don't go at all.
Thank you so much for explaining how you open new inventory dates. The 120/180 days is a good rule of thumb. Unfortunately the inventory dates have dropped well below your rule right now and a lot of customers are getting impatient.
I love flying Southwest so I guess I'll just keep waiting while you tap dance around opening up the next inventory block.
Greetings! Okay....I'm going to try and respond to almost ALL of the replies we get on this thread. So, in order:
Matthew,
We don't mean to keep folks guessing (well....all except our competitors, of course). That was the purpose of my blog post. The problem, and the problem with releasing schedules on specific dates, is that the anticipated "schedule's ready!" dates keep changing. We don't want to promise a date that we have to change later, just as we don't want to promise a schedule that we can't reasonably expect to deliver. And, according to our Technology folks, as of right now we don't send an immediate DING! telling folks that the booking window has increased, nor do we send one to our Rapid Rewards Customers. However, both are good ideas, and I'll run them up the flagpole for you.
nsx--
10 a.m. on Thursdays has to do with the way we distribute schedules. We typically send on a Friday, it "percolates" through the various distribution venues by Monday or Tuesday, then we give everyone until Thursday to get everything correctly loaded before we pull the trigger. It's certainly not set in stone--we've opened on other days of the week. The time of day isn't in concrete, either, but 10:00 a.m. Central time is about as early as we can assume the entire continental United States is awake and open for business.
And by the way--thanks for the link! I'm a flyertalk.com member as well.
francisco:
What saves us money is by **not** having to change people's schedules that have already booked. If we published further out, the chances are significantly greater that we'd have to make changes to their itineraries, then contact the Customers, and look for alternative itineraries--with no guarantees that there would BE alternative itineraries. Dealing with any or all of those itineraries, spread across thousands of Customers that could be impacted by even a slight schedule change, is VERY expensive. We'd rather focus our attention on keeping costs low.
As for SAN-ABQ vs. SAN-BWI fares: I'm not in the Pricing and Revenue Management group, but what you're likely seeing is the difference between trying to fly on a peak day SAN-ABQ vs. an off-peak day SAN-BWI--but without specifics, I wouldn't be able to comment for certain.
Chris:
The only pressing reason for booking waaaay in advance is so folks will be able to know exactly what they've got, what they're paying, and what they can expect. It's because we want to get all three correct, from the get-go, that we don't offer advance bookings any further out than we do!
Joe:
In my post I said we occasionally will dip below 120 days down to as low as 90, and that we're in one of those periods now. The reason why is very technical and would completely bore everyone out there into watching "Oprah!" reruns, but I'll condense it to just say that the schedule's just not done yet. However, unlike previous early summer schedule releases, this one will go all the way out past the middle of August. (Anyone....does that redeem us? Anyone? Bueller?)
Erica,
PLEASE bear with us. To quote the old song from "West Side Story" --
Something' s coming, something good
If I can wait
Something's coming, I don't know what it is but it is gonna be great...
You'll have a GREAT time in Space City!
And Angie,
Refer to my reply to Joe above....I know we're below 120, it happens on rare occasion....but we'd rather have a firm plan to offer our Customers than a "hmmm, that looks right" guess and then have to change things later. Please bear with us!!!!!
Okay--that's all for now. Further replies later tonight. Thanks for caring, guys--I know some of you are frustrated, but I (1) deeply appreciate your wanting to book future travel on Southwest, and (2) and thrilled you're reading the blog!
Bill
Bill Says, "weÃ
Bill,
Thank you for addressing the EXACT topic my Dad emailed me about, only TWO days ago. ;-)
Glad my answer was close to, although not as complete, as yours.
Will
P.S. BTW, did you say we're currently in one of those 'less than 120 periods' right now?? j/k
Jim,
Actually, after I've tried to type this response a couple of times, it's not all that hard to explain, after all. The math gets REALLY murky, but the reason is this: typically, our summer schedule runs from early June through early September. However, we've realized that winds aloft and weather patterns mean that a much better statistical fit would be for the summer schedule to run from May through late August. However, our schedule development timeline didn't allow for us to "speed up" the development of the summer schedule block--so instead of opening up June - September in early February, we'll open mid-May through mid-August in early February. The good news is that we shouldn't make you good folks suffer through this kind of "inventory deficit" next year!
Will,
Great minds think alike, sir! Glad we were (as usual) on the same page. Two things for you: one, please email me--the last 2 emails I replied to you bounced back to me. And second: please pass on my EXTREME congrats to Jason (who, everyone, will soon become a Southwest Airlines pilot!).
Bill
There is probably going to be some new city pairs. It takes time to add all of these. They are going to have 300 flights out of mdw.
Phx to vegas will go to every half hour and I'll get 3 n/s to phx instead of two.
Joe Friedmann
There's more to this that you think.
I suspect that Southwest fares in 2007 are going way up. Why? Because airline fuel futures that were at really low $$ prices are expired/expiring in 2007. One way the airline can preoccupy travelers is to throw a new reservation scheduling system down. For those of us that are into analysis, we are too busy trying to get the 3 month game down.. and it'll take our focus off the fact that airfares are way up compared to pre 2006.
If you travel for business...and you take the same time/date routine...over time when you book things way in advance you get to know what "your" fare is. You'd see a fuel increase passed onto customers...really easy to see it. With the 'mad scramble' even at 89 days, 88 days, the inventory is going to fill much faster and you'll attribute the higher fares to the evaporating inventory and not necessarily to higher fuel costs.
Not making any sense to me. I need a breakdown. Southwest flies more people then anyother airline. People like to plan in advance, usually we like to stick with our plans. If i need to change my flight, i can do it online, so once again how does this cost you?? either i feel really stupid right now or really smart.... can someone write a book for me... how to read a blog for dummies.... I am going on deployment and i already know when we will be coming home, yet i cannot book the flight ahead of time, yet on other airlines i would be able to. I won't book on other airlines because they will never live up to Southwest Airlines standards.. This blog is intense.... i challenge you to a blogging duel..
francisco
Bill - This is the first real attempt at an explanation that I've read, or heard, with regard to the Southwest booking window. I'm not in the mass transit airline business - so at risk of speaking about that which I don't know - my opinion is that you're doing nothing but helping Delta (et al) emerge from bankruptcy.
Example - my family flies to Orlando from Birmingham every year, at the same time every year, for our vacation. I've booked every aspect of our vacation, with the exception of our tickets on Southwest. Delta offers a direct flight from Birmingham as well. Alas, the Delta tickets will be $300 more expensive in sum total ... so I wait. And wait. And wait. As Bill Cosby once said, "you gotta come out sometime kid".
I know that sooner or later, you'll open beyond 5/10/07. I sure hope that its sooner. I have four round trip tickets to book ... again. I'm sure that if such could be measured - you've probably lost hundreds of potential June - September passengers (if not thousands) - to rival carriers. How is this a sensible business model?
Brent: That sounds like quite the conspiracy theory.
If fares rise, I don't think they'll rise much for anyone to freak out about them compared to previous fares. But yes I'm possitive that Southwest is adding more routes, as if I'm correct a new plane arrives like every two weeks. The new planes that are being put into service have to have routes for them to travel. So I believe the orders and deliveries are a pretty big reason for the delay in the scheduling. As the planners need to take a little extra time to figure out where these planes are going to serve for the busy summer travel season.
And here's a wild thought, but highly unlikely. Southwest may also be in a negotiation for a new destination and are buying some extra time to negotiate fee's and such things. Therefore, the extra time may be needed for the negotiation process along with actually planning the routes and putting the pricing on the things.
But Bill, if you care about your customers at all, please don't let this happen again.
Bill,
I appreciate the explaination. Unfortunately, as somebody who's taking a multi-city trip from May 4 through May 13th, a greater understanding of the situation does not resolve my concerns, nor my satisfaction with Southwest.
Most airlines expand their window in daily increments. I don't think people need such constant updates, but as you've noted, dependibility and schedule predicitibilty are quite valuable to consumers. I could live with 180/120, but not the occasional 90.
If you wanted to switch to May - August instead of June through September, you should have gone peacemeal - introduce the May - June period, and then June through August. There is no valid reason why you can't release May before August. Well, there is--you're trying to turn Southwest Airline tickets into Jimmy Buffett tickets: create a mad rush and increase demand. Southwest (in part b/c of the best ad campaign on tv) has a cult appeal, and markets flying as more of a spontanious good. By building a mass of folks begging for the schedule, buying Southwest tickets becomes a fun, high-paced event. It's a cunning strategy, but you're spin is disingenuous.
Bill - your response is clear as mud. If winds aloft cause this year's schedule issues, won't they affect next year's too? But I'm going to take your word for it.
I'm also going to take a WAG that the new DAL to anywhere (with a stop) flights play a part in it - you've never needed to add those into the mix before.
I love the two conspiracy theories - SWA is delaying the schedule so we don't notice fare increases and negotiation for a new destination is going on and they need to lock the new destination in before releasing the schedule.
I have it on good authority that the real reason is Kim Seale might have a new job and SWA needs to if/know when he starts so they can adjust the candy corn distribution properly.
Hey - even though the booking window is shorter than normal, we know that there will be lots of flights, going where we want to go, when we want to go, and Southwest will always be the first choice when choosing which airline will take us there. We also know the schedule will be convenient and the booking process will be simple. And, of course, the people at SWA will be friendly, cheerful and helpful beyond measure while taking us from point A to point B safely and on time.
Francisco, Airline 'A' publishes their schedule a year in advance. You know you will be coming back from deployment 9 months from now. So you book your reservation with Airline 'A'. While you our underway, the airlines changes the flight scheduling (COSTING them money in additional programming hours) that will change your departure time by several hours. So an representative from Airline 'A' needs to contact you. Costing them money in customer service
Their could be other cost to making changes that I am not aware of but, those were the two that I could think of. Of course, also the inconvenience to the you the passenger who made need to make other arrangements because you're leaving 6 to 12 hours later.Hope this makes it a little clearer for you.
As a TV "weatherman" (really, meteorologist) - I don't quite get your analogy and how it relates to this discussion....
"TV Weathermen have trouble telling us what itÃ
I can confidently state that fares have absolutely nothing to do with the schedule release. Southwest can and does change fares all the time. Furthermore, Southwest is much stingier than other airlines with deep discounts for peak flight times, even when the schedule first opens. In fact, especially when the schedule first opens.
Other airlines tend to offer their best prices far, far ahead, even on flights that are destined to sell out early. That's plane dumb, and Southwest doesn't do it. Southwest does a superb job of sizing the various discount buckets to demand, and I haven't seen a deep discount sell out quickly in years. They tend to stay available for months, precisely because Southwest does not offer the deepest discounts on peak flights.
On Southwest, the best time window to fish for a discount on a peak flight is 12 weeks to 8 weeks before the flight if seats aren't selling as well as expected. Go ahead and book that flight 4 or 5 months ahead. I always do, but I keep looking for lower fares. Since there are no change fees on Southwest, you can pocket the difference as a travel credit. For example last year I saved $30 when the fare dropped for the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, in this case 13 weeks before the travel date.
If you're looking for Rapid Rewards seats or planning a trip for which you need to compare Southwest fares to other airlines, then I fully understand the inconvenience. If you want to know what Southwest's fares are likely to be for a given market on a typical non-peak date, just go to http://flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=501 and ask. Someone there will probably be able to give you a good estimate.
On the other hand, if you want to know whether Rapid Rewards seats wlil be available, capacity controls are new to everyone. The award availability outlook for peak flights (e.g., Friday and Sunday to and from Las Vegas and Orlando) is not great. Still, if you have a day or two of flexibility, Southwest award travel is far easier than hunting for saver award seats on other airlines. As an example of the latter, I was unable to book a saver award in November for a mid-January flight. Rapid Rewards seats were available for any date I wanted, but I bought the tickets for $85 each way to earn more credits.
Quick replies for a few:
Joe, Brent, James, and David, guys, really, madly, truly, deeply....there is no conspiracy at work here! We've just moved up the effective date of the summer schedule by a month, and there was no corresponding month we could cut out of the schedule development timeline. That's all. Seriously. Honestly. No foolin'!
Jim,
Yes, the winds will play a factor in next year's schedule as well, and the next, and the next--but we make many of our plans off of history, and when we're writing the summer 2008 schedule we'll have this year's operational performance as history. Clear? Or mud? ;)
David,
The reason we couldn't release the May schedule in advance is that it's part of the whole summer schedule--and as I explained above, it's just not done yet. The good news, hopefully, is that we won't have to do this to the booking inventory next year at this same time!
Francisco,
We're all about letting the Customer change. What we don't want to do is (1) force changes on them, or (2) make them cancel altogether because our schedule changed and no longer "works" for them. And the cost comes not as much in bookings via southwest.com, it comes when one of our Reservations Agents has to stop answering Customer calls and switch to making outbound calls advising schedule change. It's a nonproductive use of their time, if it can be avoided!
And Steve,
Yes, publishing schedules 330 days in advance and then processing schedule change is SOP at most of the other guys. But since when has Southwest ever been content to be like the other guys? We're trying to publish a schedule, let you book on it, then NOT change it, if at all possible. We think that's the way to provide the best Customer Service as it pertains to booking inventory. (Nothing but LUV for TV weather guys, BTW--you guys take more guff than even Schedule Planners do!)
Thanks for the replies, folks--keep 'em coming!
Bill
Aw ,shucks! No extra phx n/s :-( Oh well. My Mom, Aunt and Uncle got in to phx from dtw 40 mins early today. So the winds are already changing.
Guess you are not renaming midway airport to southwest airlines continental us airport.
Joe Friedmann
To followup on Bill's latest, there is another couple of reasons why booking 330 days ahead of time doesn't match Southwest's point-to-point and low-cost model. With almost all of the network carriers, the vast majority of the flights feed their hubs. A change of a few minutes on a connecting flight doesn't create the huge domino effect that a change of a few minutes does on one of our nonstops. One of our aircraft may operate eight flight segments from one end of the country to another. So instead of just one or two flights being affected by a line of flight time change like at a legacy carrier, up to eight flights are affected on Southwest. This, in turn, affects the connecting possibilites at each of those eight downline cities.
Also, those carriers who do book in advance require a large group in their Reservations departments whose sole job is to handle passenger reaccommodations at schedule changes. This group of their employees doesn't enhance or generate revenue, they simply move passengers from their original flight to their new flights and notify passengers that their longheld plans have changed. Our Reservations Sales Agents are solely devoted to assisting Customers.
It's getting a little clearer, I'm guessing last year's wind can't be used for this year's schedule for some reason.
I prefer the conspiracy theories - new service to the moon, the gate lease price increases at LAX, new airplanes from the factory having in-flight entertainment, assigned seating, etc., etc. Could be the excess gravitational pull caused by sunspots too.
But - isn't it really cool that Bill has the courage to pipe in here? I mean, talk about class (and guts) - there's not another airline on earth that has this kind of dialog with their customers, and for the chief bottlewasher to step in and respond speaks volumes about *my* airline. Thanks Bill.
New service added from the additional 5 gates at PHL. That is causing the delay! ;-P
Joe Friedmann
I still fail to see why you have to post your ENTIRE summer schedule at the same time. Its not written in stone anyway.
Post just May through June. Surely you have that figured out by now. Then post june thru july etc. That gives you plenty of opportunity to make any changes you want for any reason.
Even if you are adding citys this will work. It will also give you more flexability as changes in the market occur.
Oh Bill, my loveable Bill (from the song) Thank you and I thank you a hundred more times. I am a res agent and I was asked about our bookings past June, July and into August --- at least 10 times --- and that is just to day!
Now I will not have to swivel in my chair 7 times --- uncover my crystal ball and turn it 7 times to the right and 7 times to the left ---- therefore giving my passager a answer --- "We do not have a regular schedule date for bookings to come out -- however I can tell you what we did last year --- but keep in mind --- that is not what we may do this year--- for the world changes every two or three seconds" Then I tell them -- but also inform them ---- "remember keep checking back and we do about 80 percent of the time open about 10:00 am central time"
Now all I have to say see Bill Owns' Blog . Our loveable Bill has the answer. 120/180 days since the last opening? However, I will not dicontinue my ritual of 7 plus 7. Carol
Bill:
I think you have completely missed the point.
No one said you had to post your entire year schedule now. But the booking date end date of May 10 is ridiculous. It's not really that far off.
For me I have all these silly Rapid Rewards credits I never seem to be able to use. I acquire them from flights and your credit card. They start to expire because they are only good for 12 months. So we have a trip planned in late May/early June....dates somewhat flexible. I thought, gosh, I can actually use 4 of these rewards for the family. I need to get some finality here. I have a work schedule that I need to maintain. I have other commitments I need to maintain.
Bill, you can pipe in all you want. But your answer is just lip service, plain and simple.
Bottom line is that I just called and cancelled the VISA card. It's clear that its a rip off for me, and I'd do better with a different card. I also am booking Alaska Airlines flights up and down the west coast again. If you want my business then you'll need to compete for my business again. Somewhere Southwest lost its innovative touch and is just a shy above the legacies now.....very, very disappointing.
SWA is the best! But when will SWA finally have a non-stop between Spokane, WA and NYC (JFK/LAG) ?!?
I've had dinner (mmmm.....crock-pot roast beef! ) so I'm all fueled up for more responses.
Joe--what, not Herbert D. Kelleher Airport?
Brian--great reply. In my previous "life" I worked for a while in that department in Reservations. Many of the calls we made for a schedule change of only a few minutes, but many more were for large, significant changes to passengers' itineraries. Trust me, it was never fun knowing almost every call I was going to make that day carried unexpected, and unappreciated, news.
Jim--sure, last year's data is valid. It was the shift of the summer schedule's duration that makes historical data less than usable for this year. We'll be back on track for next year! And of course I have the "courage" to post here. I ***LUV*** what I do, so explaining it isn't work--it's more like prosletyzing!
Robert--you've got a great point. Let me try and briefly explain why we can't just publish May and June and not the rest of the Summer. We re-analyze our schedule five times a year, which means we look at every single enroute time, departure and arrival time, turn time, through routing, and address operational issues (these are called Base Schedules). After that, our Colleagues in the field get their chance to review and comment on it. After we work through their feedback we finally publish. Each Base Schedule is, for lack of a better phrase, one "piece" of work, which typically takes 10 weeks to complete. So, the May and June schedule-the one lots of folks are waiting on--is really the same piece of work as July and August. And that piece of work's just not done yet. As I've said previously, we shifted the effective/discontinue dates of the summer Base Schedule up by a month, but we couldn't condense the 10 weeks worth of work involved into 6 weeks. To quote President Bush the Former--"ain't gonna happen." Trust me--if we could have, we would!
And finally....CR---Thanks!!! Our Reservations Agents have an EXTREMELY near and dear place in my heart. I started in this insane but wonderful industry in Reservations almost 30 years ago. Few people realize what it takes to be an excellent Res agent--you have to be able to listen, think, type, read, and talk, all at the same time. Southwest's Reservations Agents are the BEST. And, CR, next time you gaze into that crystal ball, ask one question for me--who'll win the Oscar for Best Actor? :)
Keep the replies, questions, and comments about this coming, folks....even though some of us may have to agree to disagree, I want as many of you as possible to at least understand out thinking--and I've got some great ideas from you as well!
Bill
I personally am glad we do not do things the same old way the other airlines do it....in case you have not noticed....WE ARE MAKING MONEY! compared to alot of the others. obviously there are alot of things we do different, and better in return. i hope our company continues doing what's best for swa, and not to conform with others.
Bill,
First of all, thanks for the post, as scheduling is an obscure science to some of us! :o)
It does seem to me like you have attracted a lot of the frustrations accumulated by airlines across the board rather than just Southwest, and maybe that's because other airlines don't communicate and talk about issues such as these?
Just shows the great spirit of openness and communication at Southwest! Which probably kills off the conspiracy theories... :o)
Scheduling is the bread and butter of all airlines. You make a fair comment that airlines will change over pax who have booked a long time in advance, and inform them of schedule changes.
The reality is that the cost/bad PR of doing so means that in a large number of cases, airlines may just run with a bad schedule till the end of that period.
All airline business models depend on optimising their operations, and running with a less than optimal schedule can really mess up the finances.
I think we'd rather all suffer a few inconveniences and have Southwest flying strong!
Ultimately, customers do have the choice, and Southwest offers them some fantastic choices from an otherwise more or less identical (and much less fun!) range!
:o)
Bill, I am not sure "king" Daley would go for that.
Although Herb is far more respectable.
Joe Friedmann
So Bill, OK, the process takes time. Why wasn't it started earlier? I read something about needing 10 weeks to do the schedule. Seems like it was taken on as a last minute effort right smack in the middle of the Christmas season, a high travel period and a period of personal and family obligations, so people were disracted. Maybe if it was started before the holidays we'd have something by now? So again, it seems like the ball has been fumbled somewhere along the line. Southwest used to be innovative, but this is just a legacy carrier move here with the lack of up front time....
I, too, am frustrated with the lack of schedule beyond May 10th. I've been checking southwest.com literally every day (sometimes several times a day) since December 8. Every day that I have checked for well over a month now, I have been disappointed to see no such expanded schedule.
Why have I been checking so often? Southwest is the only carrier which flies nonstop to Las Vegas from my general area (western NY-- BUF is close, ROC is closer). I was able to book a one-way flight out in May, but I am desperately trying to book my flight back home.
I would prefer to do so on Southwest because of the availability of a nonstop flight.
However, at this point, I am seriously looking into booking it on JetBlue or Delta. Sorry to bring up the competitors, but their schedules go through August or later. Every day I delay, I lose out on specials.
So, this has been stated before in this blog, but how can Southwest really tolerate losing potential customers like me? I understand the "120/180" rule, but at this point, we're well under 120 days out and have been for quite some time. I am still hoping for a miracle, but it looks like any day now I'm going to go to another carrier for my flight home. I'd rather not, but these delays are causing me to sway in this direction.
By the way, on a positive note, I am glad that this blog exists and I'm happy to read some of the comments. It's great that customers and employees are able to converse openly in a "town hall" atmosphere like this. Keep up the good work-- but, like the rest of everyone here, I am really strongly wanting a schedule which pushes much farther into the future.
Bill - I want some crockpot roast! Next time I'm in Dallas, you'll have to hook me up. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to respond to these issues. You ALL do a great job in Schedule Planning. I bow to greatness! ;-)
Regards,
James
MDW FA
Bill,
Thanks Bill for keeping us up to date. In one of your blog posts you say that the schedule extension will happen in the beginning of February which is fine. Can I at least relax for the rest of January and not check the website every hour making sure it didn't happen sooner?
Thanks,
Lori
A good Friday morning to all!
Some responses:
Mr. Sheffield,
(Wow...makes me feel kinda like Fran Drescher from "The Nanny!") Thanks for the kind words. "Nuts About Southwest" is, by design, all about open-ness and communication, so thank you for noticing!
Joe,
Probably, but don't tell EITHER of them.
Chris,
Writing a Base Schedule is *never* taken on "at the last second." Our schedule development timelines are planned, and the work assigned, FAR in advance of when the project kicks off. The work actually started before Thanksgiving, so yes, it spanned the entire holiday season. But that's not only irrelevant, it's a good thing. The actual days off for the holdiays themselves are built into the schedule development timeline (i.e., you back up the start date by however many extra days off are in that time period). What's good about doing this kind of work over the holiday period is that, because so many other folks here at HDQ take time off at that time of year, it's actually QUIET and CALM here in Schedule Planning--allowing the Planners to get more work done.
As to why it wasn't started earlier, base schedules come in two kinds: optimized and manually-developed. Optimized schedules can, an are, developed independent of other base schedules. However, we can't completely re-optimize all five annual base schedules (the magnitude of change would be overwhelming), so most schedules, including the Summer '07 one, are of the manually-developed flavor. Manual schedules can't be developed in parallel, because whatever improvements are made in one need to be carried into the next. Example: the March base schedule contained a LARGE number of schedule changes and improvements. We couldn't start the Summer '07 schedule until the March schedule was done--and it went out for sale on November 16th. Work on the Summer '07 schedule began immediately thereafter. Given the constraints we work under and the level of effort involved in one of these projects, I don't think I'd call that "dropping the ball." Instead, I'd use a different sports metaphor--I'd call it a "tag-team marathon."
Kevin,
I can understand your frustration. Yes, we're well below 120 days, which is our usual target, and we're going to "bottom out" at about 90 days of inventory this time. All I can ask for is for a couple more weeks worth of patience from you. Don't bail on us yet! (and are you getting through your lake-effect snow allright?)
Cheers, all!
Bill
Bill,
Thanks again for taking all of the time addressing specific requests/posts.
My advice to my father was, "If you see a fare you can't live without, buy it, but remember, all of SWA's low fares will be posted with the new schedule, and are frequently lower than the other guy's 'sale fares'".
I'm sorry some are losing patience, but others realize the value in waiting for the non-stop service at SWA prices. I'd armchair quarterback your performance too, but I need it for the Bears. ;-)
Will Browne
MDW F/A
We've been waiting for SWA to open up reservations through May for months! We have a cruise booked and if you don't open the the reservations soon, you will force us to go to the competition! How does that help SWA?
If and when you open these flight up, they will be immediately taken. What happens if we're out of town for a week or so? We'll be SOL. I think the Rapid Rewards members should get first chance at the tickets - send us a DING or an email, PLEASE!
Mary,
In my experience, you will receive notice via DING! shortly after the schedule opens.
Bill,
Me again and I just thought I'd let you know I will be sticking around and waiting for SWA to open the flight I need. This is my first time flying (booking- waiting- any of it) So I suppose I don't have a lot of room to get irrate, and nothing to compare it to. And for now the money I'll spend on tickets is hanging out in my savings account accumulating interst :)
Still not making any sense..... As you can see there are a lot of valued customers waiting to make their summer plans but they cannot all because you do not to force your reservations agents to do more work. Come on, i need a better answer then that... Now by the time you release your new schedule, it will be booked up solid, there goes all of the low fares. I still love you guys, i just do not like your spin on this... see you soon.
Good afternoon, everyone!
Mary,
Again, as I've asked others--please be patient with us for just a while longer.
Erica,
Thanks, and enjoy your first flight!!! Hopefully you'll be back time and time again.
Francisco,
It's not that we don't want to "force [our] reservations agents to do more work." We don't want them to do needless work, and calling to advise of changed itineraries, to me, is needless, particularly when we can publish a schedule that is much more "solid" by allowing inventory to dip down, temporarily, to 90 days. We may have to agree to disagree on this one, but even if you don't agree, at least you know why we've made the decision that we've made.
Have a good weekend, everyone!
Bill
How about starting a waiting list for possible reservations? I don't know how you would handle it, but it might make some of us happy.
Bill,
If you've gotten this kind of negative feedback regarding the reservations schedule from this blog, just think of the 1000's of SWA customers who have no idea the blog even exists. Once you open it up, the reservations system won't be able to handle the reservations coming in all at once.
Will you reimbuse the extra $$ we'll have to spend because the low fares will be gone by the time we receive notice SW has graciously decided to open more dates?
I can make reservations on other airlines nearly a year in advance, and no, they don't have their reservation agents call if and when there is a schedule change. I'll either get an e-mail or snail-mail advising of any changes.
I'm really trying to be patient, but this is ridiculous!
Dear Bill,
The past 6 months, waiting on Wn to open sale dates has been more frustrating than I can recall in many years. I have a group that travels with you to LAS every year in March. On the morning you opened for sale, I was on hold for 7HRS with the group desk to get in and make a reservation. While I held I had my agents calling anyone we could think of at WN to see if there was any other way in to book this group. By the time my call was answered, fare was almost up to full fare. We could not book group online or via fax or email.
Your strategy of opening in blocks of time worked for awhile after Sept 11 but in the past year we have seen a shift to many people planing vacations much farther in advance.
Because of this, hotels, cruise ships etc are booking up more quickly, and people cannot wait around for Wn in order to firm their vacation plans.
We have seen this to be a particular problem in the Orlando market for summer 2007 for our Disney packages.
Families who wish to stay on site at Walt Disney World are having to book with other airlines. Normally we would have booked them all with Southwest Vacations.
It is difficult to see how this much lost revenue can be offset by your having to manage less schedule changes. Please reconsider working with at least a 6 month block of time now that people seem to be booking farther inadvance.
Thank you
Kathy Smith
KC MO
Mary,
Are you for real? Waiting lists? Reimbursement?
Seriously, relax. And if you can't do that, book on another carrier already and be done with this issue.
Bill, you guys have done the schedule the same way for the last 30 years or so. I still firmly believe there is a hidden agenda. Granted, more cities and more planes may ad complexity to the process.
What I believe? The fares are so low now that you do not want to release the schedule as it may impact the summer season at lower than normal fares.
Bottom line is that I have quite a few RR awards I need to use. I need to be flexible since the change in structure (i.e. blackout dates, limited seats). So I need lead time to get time off with these for family events. If you didn't limit the use (like the old days) it wouldn't be a big deal at all. When you are talking May 15 or so, its not really that far off.
Bill, frankly, I have found that the restrictions on RR awards make it difficult to use (perhaps by design?) The 12 month limit is the problem. I can't use them as quick as I earn them, that's the problem. So one way I take care of that is either: (1) take the family on a trip, and/or (2) get rid of the credit card to minimize earning even more awards.
Bill,
Thanks for all of the info. As you can tell, some of us can never get enough of the "inside" info. I've got one suggestion and one story.
My suggestion: Why not publish an anticipated date for each new schedule release? OK, I know that you'd feel very bad if you missed the date. So maybe this experience sets a pattern. Two weeks before the date you raise the "get ready" flag. It would relieve a lot of angst.
My story: Several months I ago bought tickets for a July trip on another airline (to a place that you don't fly to...yet). Today I found out that they dropped service to that location and can't (won't) get my family on another carrier. Sure, I'll get my money back but the vacation is now off. All the work setting this up, moving reward points around (for the hotels) and getting time off is now wasted.
So what's worse: Waiting for the schedule to open up or cleaning up after massive schedule changes? Right now I wish that those other guys would use your system. (BTW, please expand the code share with ATA!)
Drew,
I might book with another carrier just to get away from you!
Good evening, all!
Mary,
We haven't thought of a "waiting list" for future reservations. I'm not sure how it would work, but it's an interesting idea--we'll see if we can work our way through it!
Yes, other carriers do have entire departments in their Reservations function whose sole job it is to "call schedule changes." Typically, they notify by snail-mail only if they can't reach anyone by phone. But the point is that by limiting changes to "open" schedules, it's work that doesn't need to be done, by whatever communication method.
I (and a number of us!) am surprised at the "volume" of the frustration that's been posted on this blog over our going down to 90 days of inventory--we've done it before, and frankily we've gotten a few inquiries but no major hew and cry. So I'm not sure there are "thousands of Customers" out there that are as upset about the booking inventory levels as you and some of the other posters here seem to be. All I can do at this point is apologize, as the schedule will not be open for a week and a half or so. However, consider this: when the schedule is extended, everyone will have the same opportunity to book seats as everyone else. Trust me, our Reservations system can handle the load! I doubt that I'm going to bring you over to "our" side on this issue, so let's just agree to disagree. And again, I apologize that we've not been able to allow you to book as far in advance as you want to for your Summer 2007 travels.
Kathy,
Our booking inventory process actually doesn't have anything to do with Sept. 11, and has been the same for at least the past 17 years. As I've said earlier in this thread, we try to keep between 120 and 180 days of inventory available--with occasional "dips" down to 90 days. However, we're never averse to change, and we will look at this policy again, just as we've done periodically for the entire time I've been involved.
You bring up an interesting point with cruise lines and Disney packages, as I know (from personal experience) they do book up in advance. Short of going to a rolling 330-day booking inventory the way many other carriers do, I"m not sure how we can address the issue, but I am SURE that this blog thread will certainly spark discussions with the appropriate Departments about it.
Chris,
Finally--something we agree on! Yes, we have treated this issue more or less the same for a long, long time. (Not sure it's been 30 years, but at least for 17) But that fact proves my thesis that we're not doing anything outrageously out-of-character in dropping to 90 days of inventory, as we've done this many times in the past. No, it's not a FREQUENT occurrence, but it's by no means unprecedented.
And seriously....let the conspiracy thing go. :) The 90-day inventory issue has nothing to do with ANYTHING other than the fact that we moved the effective date of the Summer schedule up to May from June. I've been over that before.
I think I've probably beaten this subject to death many times over, but if there are more comments or questions, I'll be logging on periodically over the weekend to answer them. Thanks, everyone, for a LIVELY discussion!
Bill
If you're one of those people worrying about low-fare seats disappearing immediately after the schedule opens, relax. I've been right on top of every schedule extension for YEARS, and I'm here to tell you that I have not seen that happen since before 2004. These days Southwest errs on the side of stinginess when the schedule first opens. Availability may improve later, starting about 12 weeks out. I have not seen availability of discount fares tighten AT ALL in the first few days after the schedule opens.
Where does this perception come from? Simple. When you or I first check the new dates, some of the flights have no discounts available. Someone must have grabbed them already, right? Wrong. No discount seats were allocated for those flights. (Hint to Southwest: This deserves its own blog post if anyone in the revenue department is feeling brave enough to withstand some abuse.)
When Southwest allocates discount seats to a flight, it allocates plenty of them. The only way they will all disappear is when a group books a large fraction of the entire flight.
Other airlines don't operate this way. They allocate a token number of low-fare seats even to peak flights. With those airlines, it is indeed a race to book those deals before they're gone. With Southwest, you've lost that race before it starts. Your best hope is that bookings will lag and the revenue people will relent and allocate discount seats for your flight. As I said, that won't occur much earlier than 12 weeks out.
The above observations are from my personal experience, having purchased over 1000 flights online at southwest.com over the past decade or so.
As to Rapid Rewards bookings, that's a horse of a different color. For awards, you can forget everything I said about discount fares. Nobody has enough experience yet with how RR seats are allocated to draw firm conclusions, but all indications are that token award seat allocations are indeed present at the schedule release. Last year I saw two RR seats out of Orlando on December 21 (a blackout date for the old awards) when the schedule first opened. An hour later when southwest.com recovered from a partial crash, those seats were gone, and they never returned. Someone got them by phoning in a reservation.
Award holders have completely valid concerns about the schedule extension. This unfortunately goes hand in hand with capacity controls. For example, I set myalarm for the middle of the night four nights to nail down United Mileage Plus seats to Hawaii 331 days ahead of my trip. Frequent flier programs are a lot less fun when you have to jump through these hoops, but it seems to be the way of the world now. We may need to get into the habit of using Rapid Rewards tickets only for short-notice travel, ironically costing Southwest even more in lost revenue than when we used them for our family vacations planned far in advance.
you people should be ashamed. it's not in your hands. nothing's going to change. they're doing the best they can. there's things about it that can get complicated and you all just don't understand and you're all putting yourself first. go to other airlines. spend the extra money. you all are saying you''ll have to spend extra money elsewhere on a different airline and then you want southwest to refund the difference? are you all out of your mind? that's acknowleging that southwest is going to still have the lower prices but you're going to go ahead and go with a deal somewhere else anyways just because you're all stubbern to wait a little longer. i agree southwest should have their summer schedule out already but what bill is talking about is correct. i'm sure some of you know it is. southwest is going to continue to serve the places they have served, if not more. they will have the flights that you need. so why is it so hard to wait for them? bill doesnt deserve all this. and everyone who's complaining here might just be keeping him from doing his job and frusterating everyone. they don't want to dissapoint their customers, especially those who are most loyal, however they don't have a choice in this instance and you all need to just understand.
ps- forgive me not capitalizing... :D
Thanks Bill. I hope you never have to go through this again. Likewise to all of us Southwest customers!!
Thanks, Bill!
I'll just wait until Thursday the first or the eigth or.... J/K.
We'll see if any of my theories are correct. :-) I have been wrong before... Once. ;-)
Keep up the good work!
Joe Friedmann
I surprised how mad some people are getting over this. The schedule would normally have come out around January 25th and now were looking at possibly February 8th. It's only a two week difference. I have a LUV voucher that is expiring on May 31 and I'm looking for Memorial Day weekend flights, so it's not like I don't need flights in May. Thanks for the updates.
Lori
Bill - I'm loving this thread. I can easily answer your question as to why you've never seen this kind of push-back over this "drop to 90 days" compared to other times you've dropped the inventory to 90 days - you didn't have a blog then, people could not vent their frustration quickly and easily.
And keep it in perspective - there are 13Â
Bill.
As a res agent, I appreciate your explanation to the public about this question that we get hit with every day. It is FULLY understandable to those of us who WANT/ARE WILLING TO understaand. It is very simple. We appreciate your willingness to take this on to further questioning. Thank You, Bill. Ã
Thanks for the explanation(s) Bill.
While I can't say I'm happy about the current time line, especially, since I'm not trying to fly in the Summer, but on May 11th for Mothers Day weekend, being told why helps make checking the website daily more palatable.
Your reservations agents may be great, but they don't do a great job answering the "why" the current date is low.
Thanks again, and keep sharing the news from HQ.
I'm a res agent and luv helping our customers get to and from the places they want/need to go. As you can imagine, we've been hearing the scheduling opening question very frequently as of late. It is very frustrating for us to have to say, "no we don't know when the schedule will open, "they" don't give us that information in advance". As a person who likes to travel, I can understand why our customers, especially our loyal customers, get exasperated, but the truth is, WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHEN THE SCHEDULE WILL OPEN UP - UNTIL IT HAPPENS. Until Bill's blog, I didn't know about the scheduling department's 180/120 day deal. That's really good information, but it doesn't alleviate the customer's frustration in wanting to complete their booking right then and there. The thing is, we at Southwest bend over backwards to give the absolute best customer service we possibly can for every individual customer, internal and external. We value and appreciate every single one of our passengers and would never want them to feel like they had to fly "someone else". The flying pubic doesn't know the ins and outs of operating a successful, profitable airline. We are not now nor have we ever been the same as "the others". Our customers enjoy our low-fares and can ALWAYS talk to a live person to answer questions or accomodate them as best as we can within our limits. AND the current system has been working succesfully for us and the flying public for over 17 years and I don't think we should look at re-inventing the wheel. Once we've confirmed a persons flight plans, they can depend on it (barring unforseen events). There are too many iff's out there to open up the schedule too far in advance and even tho it's oftentimes painful to have to keep repeating the same thing over and over, I understand the why behind it and can explain it a little better now. Thanks Bill!
Hi Bill,
Wow, thanks (all) for the props! Reservations is certainly not for everyone, but I'm surrounded by a great group of indiviuals that really have our customers best interest at heart. I've been a res agent for 13 years and have heard "the voice of frustration" every year before the holiday schedule is released and again before the summer schedule is released. Every year we do our best to pacify those that call every morning and night to see if the new schedule is there. Then we handle those that are gravely disappointed when the schedule is finally released and no $39 fares from coast to coast are available over Memorial Day weekend, fourth of July weekend and Labor day . (Thanksgiving and Christmas on the other end) I've said it once and I'll say it again, we're in business to make MONEY, (which gratefully we are!) hence the word BUSINESS. I see the point of the consumer, I see the point of the person(s) writing the schedules. Sometimes there is a balance, other times there is not.
Hang in there SWA public, the schedule is coming!
Thanks for listening.
LUV
Dacia
Bill,
I completely understand your point of not putting too much inventory in the pipeline as every time a change is made, its like throwing cash out of the window, from 37,000 feet. I think the 120/180 rule makes total sense. But what stumps me is why you would ever let it slip below 120 days. As of today, you're at 103 days and if it gets to 90 days, I'm off to another airline. Customers need to plan more than 3 months in advance. If you have any say-so in the matter, you should be pounding your fist on the right person's desk to NEVER drop below 120 days. Thanks for commenting on the blog, information and communication is never a bad thing.
Doug, The res agents who read this blog will do a better job. Before all we had was the ability to see when the schedule opened in previous years. Now that Bill has educated us. I am sure our answer on the matter will change to reflect the 180/120 info.
Good Saturday afternoon, everyone.
Some additional replies:
nsx---a Revenue Management post might be interesting. I haven't worked in that departrment since 1994, so I don't feel qualified anymore to speak for them, nor do I know enough about the new Rapid Rewards booking procedures to comment. I'll make that suggestion, though!
James, thanks. But honestly, I'm enjoying the exchange, the banter, and seeing what everyone is thinks about this (and other!) issues. I understand the frustration about this issue is running "in the red" so I am not taking it personally. One thing I can ALWAYS talk about, explain, and defend, is my job. I guess that's the result of the fact that I LUV what I do!
Joe--I guess we'll see. :)
Lori, hopefully you're going somewhere GREAT for Memorial Day! Please bear with us just a little longer.
Jim, I think you're exactly right--this blog is a very easy way to vent frustrations. It's a new communication venue (well, relatively, anyway), and we're all still looking to see what kind of response to issue such as this that we get. However, we're not running away from it, in fact far from it. This has been fascinating, and I've enjoyed it. I'd have to--I've spent most of the past 2 evenings AND my Saturday reading and responding! :)
And for those who think this thread hasn't made any difference, at the very least, I bet we'll need a MUCH tougher reason in the future to go below 120 days of inventory!
Donna, thankks for the kind words. Hopefully, the blog post as well as this whole thread will be of interest to your Agents, as well as informative!
Doug--see above...hopefully this post will enable out Agents to answer the "when can I book" question better. However, I have to admit that when we set the schedule transition for the weekend of May 11th I don't think any of us realized it was Mother's Day weekend. That's not one of the holidays we really track, so in that aspect we might have chosen better. Still, hopefully we'll be able to accomodate you when the schedule opens for sale! Bear with us, and thanks for replying!
Have a GREAT evening, everyone!
In response to Bill's comment about there are probably not 1000's our there waiting. I was waiting to book for end of May but now have had to go to Delta to firm up my plans. I used Delta happily for many years and switched to Southwest, now I guess I have officially switched back to Delta. I can at least book my flight without having to wait for who knows how long. A previously satisfied Southwest customer leaving for Delta.
Evening, everone....thought I would post replies one last time tonight.
Claretta, Dacia, and Mary J--as I said, you guys ROCK, and I appreciate the support on this blog. I know the current 90-day inventory thing has things a little off-kilter, but I hope in the future you and your fellow Agents can use the 120/180 guideline to help answer our Customer's questions!
Steve,
Point taken, and apologized for. I can only hope that, between our market-leading fares, our convenient schedules, and our incredible Employees...that you give us a try again in the future. If so--I hope we win you back for good!
Hope everyone has a safe Saturday night, stays nice and toasty warm...and thanks for all the comments!
Bill
This is ridiculous. There is NO excuse for the current delay.
I have a wedding in mid-May in California. Half of the 200 guests are coming from Texas. My family has been a big fan of Southwest for a long time. So, with our save the date cards a few months ago, we told people to wait for Southwest. That they would open up fares soon enough and people could have a cheaper and more enjoyable flight out.
As other airlines' fares continue to rise, Southwest remains closed. This weekend, we bit the bullet and wrote our guests to apologize and encourage them to book their flights where ever they can and as soon as possible. This has been a horrible experience. It will potentially cost our guests thousands of dollars extra and reflects poorly on us as we told people to wait. It is the last time I wait for Southwest to open up.
***I'd rather have a slight schedule change than be glued to my computer constantly checking for Southwest to open up.***
- A previously satisfied Southwest customer leaving for Continental (where I can book through MID DECEMBER).
I am another customer who has been checking the website daily to book flights for the end of May. I've been doing this for about a month now. I understand the reason after reading this blog however it still is frustrating.
Please add my name to the list of frustrated SWA customers who have been trying to book flights (in May) for over a month now.
While I understand the rationale behind SWA's reluctance to announce schedules too far in advance, you are well inside of your own 120/180 parameters now.
Constantly having to check your website to see if you've kicked the "May 10th" date does not happy customers make.
Three months ago, I booked round trip UA flights from DC/Dulles to Europe in May. I had thought the easiest part of my logistical planning would be the SWA round trip from.Sacramento to DC as I had two RR awards to use. Boy was I wrong.
I have been looking to book a trip to Vegas for May 21st since Mid December. I keep thinking since I'm looking for a week later, it should be out soon. Well almost 2 months later, it's not out. Hotel rooms in Vegas that day are skyrocketing and the hotels can't tell me why. I will not book a room without a flight so in the next couple days, I'll book what should be a very simlarly priced flight with another Airline. I was hoping to get a charter flight form SWA. With all the people I see writing here that they can't wait anymore, I'd say you lost a lot more money than you will save by this delay
Will you guys get the message finally?? A lot of angry customers who want to fly you guys but they can't all because you want to save a few dollars. I will continue to use Southwest. Your response still does not make any sense..
Mike,
I'm not sure why you didn't book your hotel room months ago. While most hotels in Vegas require a one-night deposit, they are almost always fully refundable provided you cancel your reservation within 72 hours of arrival.
Add my name to the list also. We personally think this wait is uncalled for. Like so many others everyday, I see the fares of Airtran, and each day I am finding myself closer to booking with them. I want to know that I have a flight for May at a decent price.
Bill,
I'm guessing that the number of aggrieved comments you are getting may be down to a timing issue... as the block of schedules that you are working on to release is the summer block.
had you gone down to 90 days over the summer, I presume it would have caused less pain, as most people don't book flights for september until quite close to the date...
unfortunate!
It may be interesting to see at what times of year you went down to 90 days inventory previously...
Add me to the list of loyal Southwest customers anxiously waiting to book flights for two planned trips (May & July). I've been checking every day and based on past experiences, expected (at least) the May dates to open on January 25th. But alas, I'm still waiting. I'm OK with minor schedule changes; I just want to know that I have the flights I need BEFORE I lose out on the opportunity to make other arrangements, if needed.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this question but anyways under this topic subject , I was wondering what are the southwest plans for Dulles airport are they going to expand add more city's to/ from dulles. I just don't get the SWA idea of dulles airport?. I know they just started in october but when will we have a clear picture on the what the heck they are doing with dulles the newest city. ???
I have been obsessiveily checking for the dates to open up. I have shopped the other airlines and if their ticket prices dip down to comparable with SWA, then I guess I'll book with one of them.
Bill, I think you are missing the point entirely here. You said that everyone will be happy when the new schedule comes out because you will be opening up May, June, July and August and possibly September and the fares will be great. Well guess what? I only care about May! That is when I am flying. So the fact that you will open up for the next 4 or 5 months means absolute 0 to me. You should re-do your schedule on an even pace so there are no lags like this one. Maybe when you get August posted you can slip September in a month later, then October a month later and November a month later. Do you get the picture? Make up your schedule 4 or 5 months in advance and then post a new month each month. WOW, what a concept. Keep it moving and you will never hear from us again.
I too am waiting to book...departing May 11th. It is very frustrating to see other airlines flights filling up while waiting for these dates to open up with Southwest. Your delay may turn out to be very costly to many of your customers.
I don't mind waiting for the schedule to open because I know that southwest will have better service, more availability at a lower price and more frequent service than all of the other carriers. Southwest is the mvp of all domestic airlines. (Just like kobe is the mvp of the nba) Go southwest and go lakers!!!!
PS to my yesterday's comment: What good is it to blog you when you obviously don't listen or respond to your.many loyal customers? Giving us a place to vent our frustrations with your scheduling policy is not enough. Aren't you supposed to listen and react?
Rich Beck-
While I am very frustrated with this delay and probably going to end up purchasing my tickets on another airline, I think it is entirely unfair to say that SWA doesn't reply. Bill is replying to us almost daily and his replies show that he actually read and comprehended (therefore "listened") to what we have said. Just because he can't personally change what is going on doesn't mean he isn't "listening".
Can't book past May 10th and it's January 30th now?
Is Southwest going out of business?
Good-bye to this riduculous bs.
Bill-
I've never flown SW and I'm looking to travel to my best friends wedding from Chicago to California in late May. My parents, my wife and I are very patient people and believe me as long as the fares are more competative then I've seen, you may have a lifetime customer in the very near future. I look forward to experiencing the airline and hope the experiences of other friends/family members have reported to me. With that said, hoping to see that schedule soon!
Thanks for listening
I call on all Southwest airlines customers to calm down. We will be able to book past May one day. I also think that there are other matters in this world far more important.
I just saw some sale fares at AA.com, unfortunately they were not for my destination. The strange thing about those fares though-you had to complete travel by-----May 10!! What does AA know that we dont?
I too, am frustrated with the schedule problems. I have been checking the site daily since Dec. I have 4 - one way tickets for May the 5th to go to Orlando and I have no return flight yet! My room in Disney is booked and we are vacationing with another family who has a flight on Air Tran. They are not under stress like I am! We need to come home on May the 12th! I never thought when I booked the first half of the tickets that I would be stuck with no return flight this close to my vacation date.
When I called in Dec. and Jan. to inquire about the situation I was told on 2 separate occasions that the flight will open up any day. (Well Ã
Greetings, everyone!
Sorry I haven't responded since Saturday...my Dell motherboard has bit the dust (AGAIN). Ah, well, hopefully the third time WILL be the charm.
Instead of going person by person on this one, I'm going to respond this time en masse. Make no mistake: I have heard you, ALL of you, loud and clear, that waiting to open the Summer schedule was not a good idea. Once again, I apologize, but just so you'll know that we do listen and adapt, going foward Schedule Planning is going to do everything within our power to not allow the booking inventory to drop below 120 days again. Note that I'm not absolutely promising that we won't, as occasionally things of the extreme nature happen which are beyond our control. However, this time we made the collective decision to allow inventory to drop down to 90 days. It wasn't a Katrina, it wasn't a 9/11, and while our reasons were quite valid for doing so, I can honestly say that in our wildest dreams (or nightmares!) we didn't anticipate the type of backlash it has created.
So once again--I apologize. We certainly didn't mean to ruffle as many feathers as we obviously have. However, at this point it's over and done with, and the schedule will open when the schedule opens. Speaking of which...we're currently on track to ship the schedle to distribution venues this week, which means that the Summer 2007 schedule should open for sale next Thursday. If anything changes--and, at this point, only a severe technical issue could further delay the opening--I will let everyone know via this blog. So polish up those travel plans...make sure the credit card is valid...and when the schedule opens next week--let the bookings begin!
Bill
Francisco - time to sell your shares brother
What! Next Thursday! That is ridiculous! This puts me within 87 days of the start of my vacation! I need to reserve my transportation home from Disney sooner! I also need to give my flight information to our car service or I will not have a ride from Disney to the airport for my family! They are almost all booked up and it is not their fault I foolishly picked Southwest!
I feel like I am being held hostage by my half of a ticket (actually 4 tickets) for the week of May 5th through the 12th. What if I can't get a flight home for my family for May the 12th? We only have a place in Disney until the 12th - we booked our room 9 months ago! Oh that's right - it's not your problem!!!
I just need the window to open for two more days. Get me to May 12th quick please! Marsha
Bill,
I'm a H.S. Senior Class Advisor. We take between 45 and 55 seniors to Disney World every year. We just got back last week and used Jet Blue. The service was fantastic, but the wait time between flights (BUF to JFK to MCO and vice versa) was very long. We used Jet Blue because of price, service, and being able to book about six months in advance.
We would really like to use Southwest for our trip next January (since there are several non stops between BUF and MCO). Do you have special considerations for group travel or would you possibly be able to ball park when those seats would open for booking?
Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you.
Bill,
Do you mean this Thursday, 2/1 or next Thursday, 2/8? We're waiting to book flights on 5/20 and 27. I've been checking on other airlines and I have to say, AA.com has some pretty comparable prices. I think you're missing out on bookings!
Okay, I'll try this again...
It was while looking for "industry secrets" regarding when the schedule would be opened to summer travel that I came across this blog. For some reason, I was encouraged to see that I was not the only idiot checking southwest.com daily, numerous times, in hopes of booking a flight for five for my son's HS graduation trip in early June. Like others, I have found several other deals with other airlines but waited patiently in hopes of saving a buck or two by flying Southwest. In my efforts to penny-pinch, I have likely reduced my normal life expectancy (due to the self-inflicted stress) by appx. 10 years...all in the name of frugality (of is it stupidity?). Would someone please open the travel window before I jump out of one? Come on guys! Get creative! I'll try and help...it's March, then April, then May, then May 10th...uh-oh...the earth has apparently stopped moving and we're still stuck on May 10th.
At least one positive has come from all of this...I now understand the true meaning behind the company motto "You are now free to move about the country." Yes, we are all anxiously awaiting our release on parole from Southwest Prison. Yes, moving on beyond the three square meals of peanuts and peanuts and peanuts. At least you guys don't charge for canned sodas! Unfortunately, the stipulations of our parole will likely prevent us from traveling anyway but at least we're trying. And furthermore, the striped uniforms are in again this year as black and white never goes out of style. Can't wait for the travel shackles to be cut from my ankles. I could walk to SF from Nashville in less time than it will ultimately take to book my flight on Southwest. But for some reason, I remain loyal...at least for now.
Don
I think Robert had it dead on. THe problem most people on here have is that we want to book a week after your last available date and we're waiting for you to schedule 5 months worth before that 1 week comes out. It should be done 1 month at a time, 5 months in advance. Not 3 months ahead and then 5 months come out. Now I have calmed down a bit. I am debating on waiting for the 8th or not. I can tell you 1 thing for sure. If I wait until the 8th, and the rates are not cheaper than I have found (which aren't bad at 325 round trip to Vegas), or aren't in the area of that with better flight times, I will never even look at Southwest again. I will then have lost all faith that Southwest has the best schedule and price around, and no longer feel the need to wait them out. The only way I will become angry again is if I wait and then find the other airlines booked up. This would also cause me to never use SW again. The only way I turn out happy is if I get a great deal in the end from SW. My hopes are not high.
Oh, I see...the flight attendants of SW can have a little fun but the bloggers can't?
Please disregard my last comment above...we can all have a little fun it appears.
Bill,
I am yet another person that has been checking Southwest everyday to try to find out when I can book a flight past May 10. I fly Southwest quite a bit, and have three awards I plan to use to fly my wife and myself to Hawaii. I'm scared to death that I'll be to late to book and the flights won't be available for awards. Should I be worried?
Bill,
I have been a very loyal Southwest passenger since service from Orlando began several years ago. It is obvious that the flight crew enjoys their jobs, can't beat the flight attendants and their jokes that no other airline would dare to allow. Southwest always seems to have the non stop flights to the destinations I fly to. Unfortunately I too have had to go to the competition today because I ran out of time for making reservations for a wedding on May 12th. With this disappointment behind us, I do look forward to flying Southwest again and would like to just say a big THANK YOU to everyone at Southwest for the great service that you have provided in the past and the future.
Finally Bill returns, but with the attitude we just have to wait it will happen when we want it to happen without concern for our customers. Bill Delta thanks you for the booking of 12 roundtrip tickets for the summer for my wife, 2 kids and me for our trips in June, July and August. Delta $3000, Southwest $0.00. I thought maybe Herb decided to make a point and fired you so this never happens again, that would of been my move if I was in charge, lucky for you I am not. In my opinion Southwest has become to big and forgot about taking care of their loyal customers. Oh well I know Delta needs the money and obviously Southwest does not.
Add me to the list of those tired of waiting for new dates to open. I share many of the problems others who travel to Las Vegas have expressed. Hotels and car rentals go up while we wait. From my airport (BUF) Southwest is the only non stop to Las Vegas.
There are other things about Southwest that I don't enjoy, but could live with: for example, no assigned seats. in some airports, people are standing in line a full hour before the flight leaves. I fly three or four times a year, so I never quite get a free ticket. Still my other complaints would be minor if I could count on being able to book 120 days in advance.
You seem like a real nice guy, Bill. Still, if a viable non stop alternative to Southwest starts flying here, they will probably get my business.
Come on people, give it a rest.. Bill I accept your apology, and look forward to flying with Southwest. I think we are too spoiled in this country. Whenever I do not get what i want i cry....boo hoo... to the mean customer, no i will not sell my shares from Southwest. I will always be loyal, they really know how to take care of their customers. See you in the air soon. To the rest, enjoy the other airlines, especially when you have to pay for a pillow :)
Francisco,
I thought the whole point of a blog was to allow the exchange of different opinions. I don't feel Southwest is evil, and I am not spoiled. I just agree with the people who would like Southwest to change a business policy that makes it difficult for me to travel. Maybe it's because most of my flights are at least 4 hours long, but I don't really enjoy flying on any airline. Do you?
Bill,
I think you've done a great job keeping us up to date. I'm so glad that I found this blog. I wish the people who were flying in July and August would post here because they are probably glad that they'll get to book so early. I understand why the May people are upset, but there are probably July and August people who are psyched that they'll be able to book both segments of their flights. Even though most of the people posting here are mad, there are probably alot of customers that are happy too, we are just not hearing from them. Except for me, because I'm flying the last week of July into August! lol
Lori
Steve,
Your frustration is understandable, but wishing that Bill is fired for this delay is irrational. You may feel better saying such things anonymously on a blog, but really, you don't need to be a jerk.
Steve,
it is totally unfair to call for Bill's dismissal like that.
he is not sole responsible for the scheduling problems!
And actually, it is one of the great things about Southwest that they don't have a "hire and fire" policy! It is one of the things that make them unique.
I sincerely believe that a mistake has been made, it is in the process of being rectified (and we all know it sometimes can take time - at least we now know when the new schedule should be online!), and those people involved (including Bill!) will definitely not be making the same mistake twice!
The guy has apologised so many times I really do feel sorry for him... if I was in his shoes I'd be feeling quite upset (maybe it's time for some Korn!!).
There's no quick way out, but at least everyone's had an opportunity to discuss the issue and get answers, and that's waaaay more than with many other airlines (I've stopped counting the number of times I've stared at a phone and really wanted to write a scathing letter, only to discover some companies don't even have a postal address on their website!!!).
And hopefully, everyone out there who's had to book with another airline will come back to Southwest some day, and give them a 2nd chance!
Thanks for the 120/90/180 day rule info. Please know that we are awaiting Mothers Day plans, graduation plans, Memorial Day plans and EVERYTHING because,