Flying out of MCO, I look forward to the new procedure. I bet I am the first of a zillion comments. Thanks for listened to the majority..

I just heard on cnbc that families and adults with children will not be allowed to board 1st. If this is true, I have officially flown with southwest for the last time.

The new process looks like a definite improvement and I cannot wait to experience it for myself.

Also, thank you for keeping open seating!

Yes!!! Hello Southwest and goodbye Midwest Airlines. I am am weekly business traveler from Kansas City and flew on Midwest becasue of the past boarding procedures. You have earned my business now Southwest, thank you.

Thumbs up SWA. Looking forward to the new system.

I agree with andrew d's comments regarding families with small children. The rationale that boarding children after group A will save time is misinformed. It is difficult at best to travel with children under age 4, and forcing parents to take children through twelve to twenty rows instead of one or two with assorted necessities will impact all those trying to board a plane in a timely fashion. Though I have been a loyal Southwest customer for many years, I will seek other carriers regardless of the price.

I am disappointed to hear about the changes in family boarding. As one of the last airlines to allow families to preboard, Southwest had become our preferred carrier. It also gave Southwest that characteristic "nice" vibe. This change puts Southwest right back in the pool as just another unsatisfying option.

I am confused. If I know what my number is, how do I know the number of other people in line. Does this mean I have to go through the line asking each person in my group what their number is?

Will this new procedure continue to be used only when getting the boarding pass 24 hours in advance of ones flight? Or will a change be made in the future where this system will be effective when booking the reservation? Change to families boarding is a plus especially when the majority of family members are over the age of 20.

James Rea,
It is easy. There will be tall columns in the gate area that will be marked 1-5, 6-10, etc. You just stand next to the column that matches the number on your boarding pass. Within your group of five, you don't have to be in total numerical order.
Here's some more info: http://www.southwest.com/help/boardingschool/
Brian

Congratulations SWA! It makes perfect sense and eliminates the nasty cattle call before the flight. I also appreciate your decision to board families between A and B - after all, 2/3 of the plane is still empty after group A, right? Plenty of seats still available.

BOO to the new way~~

* oh great~~ re-arrange our schedule so we can camp at our computer instead of in line, trying to beat those trying to beat the system anyway.

* check in multiple people and possibly be divided getting on, which will encourage "saving the seat" for someone or several, if bigger families are divided up! (that's loss of seat choice freedom once on board.)

* tall people have LESS chance of the exit row for VERY necessary leg room.

* baby car seats and baby bags and stuff will be dragged down the aisle further into the plane. definitely safety first for them ~~ of course~~

gee~~ did someone drop the "thoughtful" card" when dealing out this new hand to EVERYONE?

we have flown swa for years and have companion status for myself, that's how much we've liked you guys. i think you had a good thing going~~

SO, was the wheel ACTUALLY broken? the only one this seems to appease is the squeeky, single, business traveler wheel....

1 for the bottom line~ 0 for the family

boo to the new way.

Great move- I was too worried about switching to an assigned seat system which I felt would have slowed everything down. Not having to line up anymore is very fair and so much less stressful.
Kudo's to you all

Thanks Brian, the Boarding School page makes it much clearer.

I must agree with the others and favor the pre-boarding plan for families. I do not have any young family members and pre-boarding allows me to see where all the young families are and get as far away as possible. I guess I will have to invest in noise-cancellation headphones.

Andrew says, "If this is true, I have officially flown with southwest for the last time."

Then GSC states, "Though I have been a loyal Southwest customer for many years, I will seek other carriers regardless of the price."

Then Dyana pipes in with, "This change puts Southwest right back in the pool as just another unsatisfying option."

And finally mnichols let's us know, "Change the policy - i might come back."

I figured it out Brian. No matter what SWA does, somebody is going to whine. Heck, you could announce tomorrow that all seats are now $15 each, 10 rows are being removed from every plane to create more legroom, and everybody will be served a complete seven course meal on all flights - and somebody would say, "That does it, I'm never flying Southwest again!"

I would be willing to bet at least 3/4 of the people who blog here with statements like "I'm never flying Southwest again" haven't ever flown SWA, or, at best, have less than five lifetime flights on WN.

I am very unhappy that families with young children will no longer be allowed to board first. Please don't proceed with implementing this portion of your new procedures nationwide. I live in Nevada, have three daughters under age 4, and travel Southwest each time we visit my mother in North Carolina. We always use car seats on the flights for each girl. Even with pre-boarding, it takes my husband and I quite a while to get all three car seats buckled in. And even though I try, I might not always be in the "A" group. If we are not "A"s, our chances of finding 5 seats adjacent to each other just substantially decreased as well. I would say I won't fly Southwest with my family again, but I think I'll continue to do so in part so you can see how much time our not boarding first actually COSTS instead of saves. It may also spread my children throughout the aircraft to give more passengers the "toddler on a 5 hour flight" experience.

The thing is ...

All the people who are saying, "IÃ

I honestly will fly them less because as a business traveler I want space for my luggage. I don't always have access to a printer or sometimes a computer from the road and in the past I've spent too much time in line C on my return flights.

I'm all for the new boarding process. It bothers me to see people camped out under the different letters, plus, it always makes it seem like you need to hurry if you are going to fly Southwest just so you can get a spot in line.

What bothers me though is the article I read today that Southwest will stop letting those will children board first. How will this save time? I don't see it saving time. Now the delay will be dispersed rather than at the beginning.

Considering that you are still letting people choose their own seat, you are going to have a harder time explaining to two parents with a small child why they can't sit together because they didn't get the good boarding letter/number and only single seats are left. For fear that I will have to sit separately from my husband with a 1 year old will likely keep me from flying Southwest, which is a pity since the airport closer to me has Southwest. I'd rather drive the 45 minutes across town and have my assigned seat than be told we won't be able to sit together.

As a passenger on the first 737 to arrive from Boeing I am very of aware of SWAÃ

I only occassionally flew Southwest and tried to avoid it due to open seating. But this new arrangement sounds like a nice hybrid approach, and I commend you for trying something a little different and using your blog as a vehicle to listen to customer input. I'll be flying in October and hope this new rules apply to me during that trip -- I may be more of a Southwest fan after that point.

Hey Ralph,
You don't need a printer to check in online in advance. All you need is access to a computer or a PDA (for wireless checkin). Go ahead and check yourself in, even if you don't have a printer. Then, when you get to the airport, just go to a kiosk and reprint the boarding pass.

And Steve Dillinger, again, all we ask is that you try the new procedures before making a decision
Brian

GREAT!
I've thought for a long time that people should be boarded in the order they check in. I've noticed each boarding pass as a number on it already so now the number actually means something.

For the people with small kids who are complaining that they don't get to board first: No longer will you be able to get the bulk head seats! It gives the rest of us a chance now.

(Speaking of kids: On my last flight on Southwest there were two old "bidies" who complained about everything. They even decided to pre-board, although they didn't follow th procedures. They knew I wanted the bulkhead seats for my girlfriend (she has a bad knee) but they went ahead and took them. However, no bad thing goes unpunished. Right behind a family with a toddler boarded. This 2 year old had the greatest set of lungs around! I noticed the biddies were covering their ears for most of the flight from SEA to OAK!)

Anyway, back to the subject of the new boarding procedure. Again, I say this is great.

For those who complain about having to sit at the computers to get an A boarding pass, don't forget that you can check in via cell phone and just print your boarding pass out at the airport.

For the long-legged people: Granted, I'm only 5'6" but for most people taller than that, there is still plenty of legroom. Southwest's seat pitch is 32 inches in most seats, more in the bulkhead and emergency exit rows. That's 1 to 2 inches more than most other airlines have in coach.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, SOUTHWEST!

To me, the new system sounds like an improvement, and I'm willing to try it. If flying isn't tiring enough, passengers don't need the added fun of having to sit on the floor for an hour and a half before a flight.

I do not believe that families should go first, as I feel that many people abuse that, however, I do think that families, or any group should have the option to check in together so at least they can be in the same order in line.

I understand the tall folk's irritation at the short folks that end up in the Exit Row. But a lot of SW's flights are direct, which means they have through passengers, and as soon as the local passengers have deplaned, those through folks scramble to the front seats or the exit row. So saving the exit row seats for tall folks would not work. But I do feel for them.

Christine,

Just give people a chance to be courteous. You can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar! When you board the plane and discover that there arenÃ

THANK YOU, Southwest for keeping an open seating policy!! I fly often for business and try to fly you (whenever possible) for pleasure. I'm glad you did not change (which would have probably led to my not flying you less) and am looking forward to learning the new system.

This new boarding policy is very disappointing for all American families and they should respond by giving their business to another airline that appreciates families. Flying with young children would be very scary in this day and age if they weren't seated together. I would think that other companies will follow suit and switch to using another airline. You are not nuts about your customers, you are just plain nuts!!

The problem is not with the kids its with the older crowd. These people are clearly not disabled yet they feel entitled to pre-board. You got half the boomer population out there feeling entitled to pre-board SW flights. What exactly qualifies as a disability to pre-board?

I will plead guilty to being a line camper. I am also a "clock watcher" meaning that I usually check in online as soon as humanly possible when once it less that 24 hours until my flight.

Now I REALLY wish that A&E hadn't canceled Airline. I would love to see some footage of people getting used to the new system!

Due to the family changes I will no longer fly southwest. I have been a loyal costumer with their credit card. With three children under the age of 6 I can not take the chance of sitting all together and trying to lug on the things on the plane plus the kids is stressful enough. I would rather pay for assigned seats. It is a shame that families are no longer seen as a priority.

It sounds like a great idea. I have high hopes for it. I was sad to see that Southwest decided to stop pre-boarding for people with small children. We flew LAX-SLC last summer and what a relief it was to have the children situated next to us and have all our bags put away by the time everyone else came on. Those two flights were some of the best flights I ever experienced. We even got extra peanuts :D

I did see from the article that families will still be able to "preboard" between the A and B groups; I will just have to try and make sure that my family is as close to A as we can possibly get (though with our three bags, collapsible crib, two carseats, stroller, and two kids, we will never beat those sleek business folks with their one briefcase). Keep up the good work, Southwest, and fly safe.

I am truly thrilled with the new boarding procedure...no more waiting in those awful A-B-C lines for 30 minutes before the plane even starts boarding. Finally, we get on the plane in the order in which we check in, but we still get to pick our seat on the plane. Perfect! Well done SWA!

My one complaint is the pre-boarding change. It sometimes seems that half the people on the plane are pre-boarding, regardless of whether or not they need to. So, I can understand how others get upset by the number of people that claim they need "extra time" getting on the plane. Southwest simply needs to enforce the pre-boarding rules. I flew often before and after kids. I do pre-board with my children, but not for the sake of getting a "good" seat. I have two 6-month old boys who travel to the gate with a stroller and 2 carseats because I cannot physically carry 2 babies to the gate. Let me tell you, it takes me a LOT of time to get from the gate to the plane seat with 2 babies. Breaking down strollers and carseats, carrying diaper bags, bottles and kids is not an easy task. Pre-boarding allows me some extra time to get all this done without being trampled by the line of people coming down the jetway and airplane aisle. Even with pre-boarding, I still find myself sometimes getting run over by the 'A' group and they certainly don't wait to let me get out of the way. Allowing those of us with an 'A' to board in normal order is out of the question. We would either be run over by the others behind us or we would be holding up the entire line of people. Just enforce the rules and only allow those who truly need extra time to board early.

As a Texan who has been flying Southwest for my entire life, I'm really curious to try out these new changes. I still miss those old plastic cards, you know.

However, since many of the comments on this blog and in news coverage focus on the family pre-boarding changes, I find it ironic and oddly patronizing to have the "Boarding School" font look childish. Most people enjoy reading large, clear fonts (please see the August 12, 2007 article in the New York Times), and find it difficult to read tilted scribbles. I'm glad you have humor incorporated into this presentation, but please, tell your design team to use fonts that are easier to appreciate. Thank you.

I've been a Southwest flyer for quite sometime, in fact I fly them as often as feasible with my travel schedule. I have to say that this new plan has me concerned. Though I make an honest effort to check in as soon as I can to get an A boarding pass, there are times when my plans change and require me to cancel my checkin so I can book a different flight where I could end up with a B or C boarding pass. I have always enjoyed the fact that even if I have a B, there was nothing stopping me from being as close to the front of the line as I could place myself and get on while there is still a good selection of seats.

While this new plan will avoid the crowd at the gate, it takes away some of the convenience that some of us have had while flying Southwest. Personally, if this is going to be the case, you might as well just go to an assigned seat model.

Brian Lusk & Everyone-

Let me respectfully offer some advice.

You have a 'communication' disaster brewing.

The headline re: family board is:

"Southwest gets rid of family pre-boarding."

NOT

"Southwest move family boarding after the first 60 passengers where those passengers will most likely have no problem sitting together"

That leaves most people to picture boarding at the end of the C group with a 2 year old. IE- no more SWA.

Your customers with little ones flat out WONT "try that out to see if they like it." The will rightfully conclude that is a silly risk to take.

Your BIG problem is "the real story" is too complicated. The story that is spreading virally, in the mommy-n-me classes, at work and in the park, is the headline "Southwest ends family preboard."

For the .0001% that read the blog and or find a newspaper that gave the whole story, they might try it

A significant portion of the other .9999% won't give you the chance (because they only know the headline)

Is it really worth it??

Steve

Sky King JR- GREAT post.

((and I STILL don't see how this possibly speeds things up))

gary:

you don't get it!! it's simple, but it's not about preassigned seating.

1. take care of your mfu's --------if it's about meritocracy vs aristocracy, then it's about what you do for your "most frequent users" ( your "mfu's"). for those of us who fly you a lot--and i mean a lot, i.e. companion passes, literally hundreds and hundreds of rapid rewards credits, etc. these folks are your economic backbone, and it's about what you do to keep and grow their flying usage and that of their families.

you need to make every one of your mfu's experiences in every airport as easy and quick and bearable as it can possibly be.

you need to give your mfu's priority check-in/kisok lines.

you need to get your mfu's priority through the airport security lines where every other airline's "first class" passengers are getting priority, and then,

whatever your seating plan is, you need to take care of your mfu's by putting them automatically in your top boarding group (or give them an "AA" boarding group --sorry wrong air line-- or an "I M Certifiably Nuts" group of their own) whenever they check in ---even if it's 10 mins before boarding time.

you also need to seek out input from your mfu's---not just every vocal idiot who decides to try and criticize your airline once a year and threatens to move $1.98 in business at the drop of a hat. your mfu's can and will tell you candidly what is right and what is wrong about swa from the customer perspective.

2. there is a big issue about pre-boarding, but it's not about families with young kids.

our kids are grown adults, yet we recognize all of the very important reasons voiced in the earlier blogs about why families w/ kids need to pre-board. those reasons are all valid, and they should pre-board.

the problem w/ pre-boards is all the non-sense that we and your other mfu's see time and again when blatant abusers with tennis racquets, and mtn climbing gear in hand jaunt merrily onto the plane ahead of everyone else with a bogus pink or yellow piece of paper granting them priority for some feigned disability. (we also experience folks with genuine disabilities who refuse the privilege of pre-boarding.)

the resentment of those experiences is exceeded only by those where an apparently genuinely frail elder or disabled person is pre-boarded while accompanied onto a flight by a healthy entourage that's larger in number that that which accompanies michael jackson or your average rock band or presidential candidate.

let the families pre-board ---but stop the abuses. they're incredible in number, and your/our swa attendants are too polite and never challenge them.

gary: let's go for it! stretch the envelope! you have great employees (we really luv their collective sense of humor) and great market appeal. AND you obviously have GREAT Customer Loyalty........but we are smart and we are fickle..................SWA......like every other business today.....has to earn that loyalty everyday. Thanks for listening/reading.... j

I must admit that I've been skeptical about hearing this coming. A couple of concerns that I'd like to see addressed:

PlS INF -- If I call and add a lap child to my ticket, I can't then do online check-in. Now, I realize that I can still get on board before the B's and C's... but you need to address the PLS Inf issue as it does put those of us who are willing to play by the rules at a slight disadvantage.

Sequential numbering? Is this really a good idea? From the looks of the SAT boarding area and "boarding school" videos... I see that you have zones for each in line. I for one don't really care... to me an A was an A. Now though if you have groups of 5 (let's say 30-35) and I just happen to be the first one standing in the 30-35 section with #34, I can see someone who has a #31 insisting to get in front of me so we are in numerical order. Does it really matter? No.. but it is a chance for a confrontation in the gate area. Please don't give your passengers that much credit to see reason. I've seen lots of arguments in Southwest lines as it is. At the risk of sounding like your competition, you would have been better with zones (e.g. A1, A2, A3) instead of A1-5, A6-10, etc.

I'm staying open minded. At least you still have some sort of consideration for families. There is another major carrier (the one that hubs in ATL and SLC) that did away with pre-boards all together. Trust me... it can be worse.

Now... if only you'd do something to better control the other pre-boards. 20 PAX needing assistance to board the plane .... but not needing any assistance on the other end... hmm... I know that one is going to be tougher. Thanks for at least trying to be innovative at solving the problem. Heaven knows the other carriers have a big problem with actually trying to change their processes. At least you are taking the risk.

One other note...

This policy might eliminate "some" of the lining up. But make no mistake... even with assigned seating, the vultures hover in the gate area of the other carriers (no matter how many announcements are made about it). The issue is really more than just the seat preference. Let's face it... it is about space. Overhead space to be more precise. I travel with two kids and we try to limit our carry ons to the bare minimum. Yes... we check our bags!! Mid boarding (even in a B group), you can find yourself with 4 tickets passengers and there won't even be room above your seat to slide in the diaper bag. New Preboard slot puts us after the thru PAX and after all the A's. With all the roller bags, garment bags, shopping bags, etc... I see our odds dwindling and that we will have to stuff our items beneath the seat.

Getting on board is more than just getting the seat up front, it is part of the competition for overhead space. Personally, I have a seat down below and would like to think that my ticket gains me a little real estate in the overhead bin. But, let's face it.. that isn't always the reality and being first on the plane is the only way to ensure that to be the case.

How about a some sort of incentive to the baggage policy? Reward those who check bags for instance. You'll find that turn around times will imiprove if people who can barely walk aren't also dragging 50 lb bags down the aisle. Don't get me wrong... I'm probably one of the few who realizes how generous Southwest is with their current baggage policy (3 50 lb checked bags per customer?!?!?). However, that does not appear to be enough to convince some people.

I have been avoiding Southwest in the last couple years because of the "open seating" system. Judging by this blog, many people like it, but I still fail to understand in what way being able to pick your own seat after boarding - and after jumping through a lot of hoops if you are to have any choice at all - is superior to being able to choose your own seat at the time of booking, like many other airlines let me do.

The new system sounds like an improvement, so I'm going to give it a try - it's a pity not to have SW as an option, you do offer convenient flights between Chicago and several cities I frequently have to visit. On the other hand, having pre-assigned seating would be a much bigger improvement in my opinion, so I expect I'll still fly other airlines whenever they offer comparable schedule and price.

I am the mom of a just-turned-2 year old and, since her birth, have flown Southwest about once a month to visit family in Phoenix (most of the time, it's just me and my daughter, without my husband). I was utterly disgusted and angry when a gate agent told me last Sunday (as I checked in for my return flight home after my latest trip to Phoenix) that I could pre-board this time, but that Southwest would no longer be allowing pre-boarding for families after October 1st. What???? You've GOT to be kidding, I thought. I am so disappointed to learn that this is no joke. Clearly, the people who decided on this new policy do not have young children. Flying solo with a small child is probably one of the hardest things I have done as a mother. As hard as it is, I have made the effort to fly regularly with my daughter since her birth, and Southwest has been the link that has allowed my daughter to get to know her grandfather well over the last 2 years, despite the fact that he's over 1,000 miles away. It's the only airline that offers direct service between my city and Phoenix, where my dad lives, so I'm not sure I can say I will never fly the airline again (though I would LOVE to be able to say that). However, I now feel complete disgust about Southwest and am absolutely dreading flying the airline again. And please, Southwest, don't dismiss my feelings as the irrational knee-jerk reaction of someone who "just doesn't understand" how the new system will work. Not only do I feel tremendous ill-will toward the airline for being so blatantly anti-family/anti-kids and for making what is already a daunting and exhausting experience that much more stressful, but I am dreading the reaction I will get from whatever lucky passenger I am forced to choose to sit next to when I finally get to board the plane. Do you know how many times I have had a whole row to myself because no one wants to sit next to a mom and her little one? I don't really blame them - I was the same way before I had kids. To put families in the position of having to pick someone to sit next to just isn't fair to anyone (as some of the other posters have already noted). I am sure I will get plenty of disgusted eye-rolls and sneers when some "A" group passenger who is happily settled in to what they thought was going to be a "choice" seat finds out my daughter and I are going to be sitting next to them. This is only ONE of my many concerns. Also, I will likely no longer be able to chose a seat near the very front or back of the plane, where a flight attendant will be close by if I need some extra water for a bottle, an extra napkin or some snacks. I expect to feel stressed about trying to get myself and my daughter and her stroller, blankie and carry- on settled in while the plane is already half-full. I probably will have a much harder time getting a window seat, which on some flights has been the only thing that has kept my daughter entertained (despite that I come armed with a backpack full of toys each time I fly). I won't even allow myself at this point to consider the possibility of ever flying solo on Southwest with 2 children after my second child is born in January. Please, Southwest, don't patronize me by telling me to "just give it a try." YOU just give flying with a 2 year old a try. Again, I am just totally disgusted, disappointed, and angry, and the good feelings I had about Southwest have been done away with in one fell swoop. Oh, but, I forgot - you don't care about my business or opinions anyway, because I'm not a business traveler. SHAME ON YOU SOUTHWEST!

I don't understand how it will save any time boarding the families with children between the A's and B's. There will still be the same number of adults and children and same amount of paraphernalia to get situated whether they go before the others or in the middle of them. I have traveled with small children many times and it is a demanding, difficult dance that takes all the skill, poise, courage, and patience you can muster. And even then there is no way to anticipate what is going to work and what isn't. So by making things more difficult for them are you attempting to reduce the number of families that fly on your airline? Because saying that it would actually "save time" really doesn't fly. All it will do is further frustrate parents and children, and in kind those who have to sit around them. Honestly. I would like to know what your real motive is?

I cant wait to give it a try... Come on people, lets not knock it until we try it... I have to say though, I'll be disappointed about not having the "pre flight" entertainment of watching the A line campers and the pushing in the A line.

The best boarding experience I've ever had was with Frontier, unfortunately you can't fly them unless your going to Denver. They assign the seating, but load from back to front, by row. Nobody lines up, they just call, 26, 25, 24. etc. But in any case, this new boarding policy is a really great compromise. its a great compromise for everyone...

With the kid situation... Anyone who doesn't travel with kids, i can tell you pretty much resents the family preboarding. it always seems like, just because someone has a 4 year old, it gives the family of 10 the right to cut the line... I actually think that the boarding after A, but before B is also a great compromise for those of us who don't travel with children.

SWA is always #1 in my book. I don't care if they make us walk backwards down the jetway - just flying with smart, trained, friendly and intelligent employees is enough for me to deal with any boarding process. my only real complaint is not being able to travel with my dogs. I say remove the children, and let us bring our dogs. My dogs are probably better behaved than your children :) Just kidding, lighten up...

Are you kidding no pre-boarding for families. I can imagine people have taken advantage of it, but what a joke. I call on all families to croud the aisles, take your time breaking down the strollers, leave your supplies in the aisles, chase your kids between seats, and don't worry about them crying. Let them all feel the pain they will reconsider.

I think your new plan regarding families with young children is ridiculous. It seems to me that anyone with gray hair gets to pre board but now those with young kids may not be able to sit with their children. So, potentially my 2 1/2 year old is sitting by some strangers? Is this a safe situation? This plan was obviously hatched by a man.

Southwest will have to reconsider the new policy of not letting families with small children to preboard. We have always bought a seat for our baby and we use a car seat which is encouraged by the airline.

There is no way we would be able to use a car seat under this new seating policy. It is difficult enough to carry and install the seat with many people coming up behind you and that is when there is a small window of time allowed during the preboard process. We also have two older children (all under age 7) and I can say it is definitely a challenge even with preboarding with all three kids. It will be impossible without preboarding.

We are Rapid Rewards and Companion Pass members and if this policy is not reversed...we will not longer be able to fly Southwest. It will be just too miserable because most people are not happy to see smaller children near them on a plane in the first place. BTW...my children are so quiet on airplanes and after our flights many passengers comment on how good they were on the plane once the flight is over.

Sorry Southwest that you have made a very unfriendly policy for families.

We will now fly Continental unless this policy is reversed.

Although we were terribly upset seeing you have this so called "gay travel" section, we are glad to see you will continue the open seating. Assigning numbers sounds great! I am planning a trip in Nov. though to travel with my 4 kids by myself and am a bit nervous about not being able to board first. I was really counting on this and this is why we chose Southwest over the other carriers, so all those flying with us will just have to have lots of patience.

If the families are heck bent on "staying together" and are up in arms over potential A-/B+ boarding status, perhaps you could accommodate them and keep the rest of us happy.

I propose that any family who wants to pre-board MUST go to the very back of the plane, and MUST cluster themselves so that no seats are wasted. Also, ZERO use of ANY overhead bin excepting those immediately above the families. One benefit is closer access to the lavatory.

If this is truly about being together, a family would take this deal in a heartbeat. I can't imagine that the folks who have objected to the family pre-boarding would be anything but pleased.

Just a reminder that Customers traveling with an Infant or Child Fare CAN check in online, as long as the passenger is age verified in advance. Here is the link on how to do that:
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/children.html#age
Brian

Mr. Kelly- I commend you and the entire Southwest team for the continued effort to be the most reliable and affordable airline out there. BWI is my home airport which means Southwest is my airline of choice. Over the years I have logged thousands of miles. The seating change is a perfect time to address a negative situation I've incurred on 2 of my hundreds of flights.

On two occassions I was holding an "A " boarding card but arrived at the gate after the "A" group boarded and was instructed to wait until all of the passengers boarded -in other words I was sent to the back of the line. I don't have a problem with that but - some airports let me board immediately, others made me wait. (Of course the obvious answer is to be on time....;~). With the addition of a # to the boarding pass you may find people will not be at the gate in as timely a manner as they might otherwise.

This is a perfect time to add Southwest's policy on the boarding pass, on a sign above the gate or, maybe a pop-up box on the web check-in.

Many thanks and keep up the great work.

thank you southwest

Brian -- I appreciate the post about the age verification (and believe that might be as the result of my PLS INF qestion). However, I am curious to know how age verification resolves the PLS INF issue? When I call to add my infant son, Customer Service never asks for his name or acct#. Rather, they just note my PNR and tell me that I have to check in at the airport. It would be nice to see some way to have this age verification done in person at the airport the first time so I don't have to go through all the hassle of mailing in documentation -- seems kind of antiquated for an airline that uses technology to solve a lot of their problems.

With all the concerns from families being posted in the comments section, it would be nice to see Southwest be a little more vocal about these type of family policies and perhaps make them a little more visible (or publicize them better) -- in other words... let's at least see a blog article -- soon!

This change of preboard policy is not being handled very well. I don't think that you folks are doing a great job of communicating it. I'm reading a lot of the comments here and can feel for a lot of these people because I too had the same panicked reaction to it. Since I read about the SAT experiment, I have had more time to absorb it and figure out how it would work.

Honestly, Southwest moving only the family preboard at this time (especially when you haven't fully impelemented the new boarding process) seems to take a swipe at the fact that the family preboard has been a big problem for WN. Let's face it... a lot of the A boarding pass issues is because people want to choose their seat (which invariably is at the front of the plane!). I'm ok with the idea of allowing families to still preboard first and require us all to sit beyond row 15. This can be handled simply by having the exit row Flight Attendant wave people to the back. When we preboard we do that so that we can respect our fellow passengers and help Southwest by staying out of the way while the A group comes on board.

You need to get in front of this problem and be more visible. Hopefully we see Colleen or Gary on the Today Show soon. Don't let this turn into another "mini skirt" debacle.

This change in policy does not address the problem that those with computers get groups A and B, those without, will always be last on the plane. The worst discrimination is that those with lap children, who are unable to check in online because of the lap child, will never get in group A. I've been a loyal customer of southwest for 20 years. I am rethinking that loyalty. Even Delta let me preboard with my infant!

JJG--I am enjoying reading the feedback to Gary's post, and I know that he and Colleen are reading the comments.

Mike--The age verification does only apply to ticketed Customers, but I did want to mention that so everyone could be aware. Thanks for the blog suggestion, and it is a great idea. I am checking with a couple of Leaders about age verification for lap children. As to being out front with this issue, we did hold a press conference with Gary yesterday, and all media (including networks) were invited. I'll let you know when I hear something on lap children.

Brian

[...] don’t care enough anyway. If this explanation didn’t work for you, try this link or the Southwest blog post, both of which give you other ways to understand what they’re doing. So what do I think? I [...]

Brian,

As someone who flies out of MCO all the time, I have experienced tons of preboard children, I have to question the policy of boarding those children after the "A" group. I'm guilty of being one those first in line to get the exit aisle seat, but I also want to see where the children are at, plus parents do need that extra time. It's not the pre-board children that abuse the system. Enforce only parents with the kids and tightened up what constitutes a pre board adult. Also, I really think the boarding will slow down after the A group while the parents get there children buckled into there seats, stowing their bags, etc. While the flights out of and into Orlando are not the norm for children, the situations I have experienced involving children boarding, tells me that this new policy with boarding children needs to be looked at. The other part is quite fair.. Ask you customer Ops people in MCO their thoughts.

Brian,

Again, though, the rule you mentioned only applies to children who have their own seat, not those who sit in your lap. Your rules say:

# One child over 14 days and under two (2) years of age, not occupying a seat, may be carried free when traveling with an adult (12 yrs of age or older). Online checkin is not available if the infant is not occupying a seat.
# Affordable Infant Fares are also available that enable a Customer to reserve a seat for an infant and use his/her FAA approved car seat. Online checkin is available if the infant is traveling on an Infant Fare and is age verified.

I have yet to book a flight with you where your infant fares are affordable. In fact, they have been the same price as an adult. When we are paying $300 for our child to fly, it is simpler to take Continental out of Houston because chances are it is the same price, and we don't have to take extra time trolling the rows for a seat. That is why no matter how you do it, it is not going to save time when people are having to split up and look for seats.

I have always thought that if you want to be first on the plane, you should go all the way to the back of the plane and sit down. Let your Rapid Rewards people who fly all the time get coveted seats in rows 2 to 8. Give them a paper with their boarding pass that says so. Let the taller folks ask for exit rows - give them a piece of paper or something to show the flight attendant, so that person will at least assist them in getting a seat in the exit row.

I also think it would help if everyone would calm down about sitting in the middle. You get the two middle armrests any way, and if you haven't been, then middle seat sitters around the country need to take back the armrest!

Christine in HOU and Mike in AZ,

I did check with Teresa Laraba, our Vice President of Ground Operations, and age verification isn't in place for a lap child at present. According to Teresa, we are working on a technical solution to allow this, but she is honest in saying that we don't know when it will be ready. However, we are looking for a way to allow online checkin for lap children.

It is also true that many of our fares are lower than the Infant Fare. The Infant Fare is a walkup type fare with no restrictions other than the age requirement. It is a discount off of our full fare unrestricted ticket. Customers with infants aren't required to purchase this fare--if they qualify for our discounted fares, the infant also qualifies.

Mike, the tests in San Antonio spanned a month period, and unlike the two San Diego test periods the year before, every flight in the San Antonio Station was involved. If you want more information about the tests, click on Susie's post that Gary mentions in this post. Incidentally, when we went back to San Diego last year for the second time so that we could test open seating boarding methods, I understand that the family boarding procedures were also tested there.

Brian

In the article they stated that it wasn't fair that families with children show up at the last minute and get onto the aircraft first. If they only realized how difficult it is too carry an infant through security (taking apart car seats, taking off shoes, etc.), finding a restroom to change diapers, breast feeding, all while dragging strollers, car seats, diaper bags, etc.!!! Getting to the gate takes people with babies longer and we are usually sweating, tired and anxious when we do finally make it there!!!

I find this very disturbing as I travel (mostly alone) with our young son often and find the pre-boarding necessary! We need time to get settled, get the car seat strapped into the seat, settle the baby, etc. If a woman is breast feeding, we need to find a seat we feel comfortable in (location).

For anyone who does not agree, travel with a baby first, then decide.

As a mother of an 11 month old and recently having made the mistake of flying over labor day weekend, I can tell you that dropping the pre board for families with young children would have made a generally pleasant trip unbearable. We flew out on Saturday, September 1st and were able to preboard and get one of the bulk head seats. This was our first time flying with our son and the four hour flight from Denver to Baltimore was manageable because we had time to get his car seat in place and room to move. This flight was booked full as was our connecting flight with only 4 open seats. By the time our boarding letter "C" was called, there were only middle seats left. Other passengers would have been irate to give up a window seat for my son's car seat. (Which is where the seat is mandated to be).We then had to make a connection from Baltimore to Manchester and it was helpful to be first off the plane and first on the next plane. The rear facing car seats also take up the entire space of the airlineseat and don't allow the people in the row in front of you to put their seats back. (as the lady in front of us on the return flight discovered). While our son slept for 3 of the 4 hours, when he was awake he was active and difficult to keep in his car seat or even on our laps. We took the entire row and were able to limit the number of people we subjected to his antics. The flight attendants were wonderful on all our flights (by the way).

I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind not allowing families with children under 4 to pre board. Hopefully, it is not because of a misconception that these families are delaying departure. It appears (from my experience) that families board together and move quickly toward the window seats to get their children situated. I think the pre board for families should apply only to the child and their parents or guardians (not extended family). And for other passengers needing additional assistance, they should also have limits as to the number of people who can pre board with them. (this is where we saw a lot of abuse).

While we definitely enjoyed our first experience flying on SWA with our family, I'm not sure we would choose to fly this airline in the future, given their move towards a non family friendly practice.

Children pre-boarding or boarding after the first group - whatever. Calling it an improvement to have me figure out which numbered post to stand by (within my boarding group no less)? That's insulting. Congratulations Southwest. You've managed to take away the only saving grace to the A B C system of open seating by effectively guaranteeing that anyone without access to a computer to print an early boarding pass is relegated to a middle seat. Used to be if you got stuck with a C pass you could mitigate it somewhat with a small bit of industriousness by getting there early and being at the front of the C line so you at least had a shot at the least bad of the worst seats - but no more. The only industriousness rewarded now is to those techno savvy enough to have computer access and remember to use it to retrieve their boarding passes 24 hours early. And woe to you if you wait until 23 hours. You've just moved the line online, and created the stress of knowing you've got a guaranteed seat that sucks up to 23 hours early. And how long did you study this "improvement" Southwest???

As a mother of a 4 year old who has ONLY flown Southwest with my child, I am very disappointed with the decision to not allow families with young children to board first. Lugging a carseat on board is difficult enough, but now not being able to get set up in a seat before everyone else is trying to board will be next to impossible. I will have to re-think our family's decision to use Southwest as our only airline from now on.

Discontinuing preboarding for families with young children is a BIG MISTAKE

Face it, SW is no longer the cheapest fare (at least in the Bay Area). You are not the most convenient carrier (security at Oakland is a fiasco, the baggage system at Oakland is a mess, you have no real presence in NYC and I can't fly to Texas on your planes without going all over hell's half-acre). Yet I still chose to fly SW because I could guarantee my kids seats in one location, and be squared away with plenty of time to ensure an on-time pullback.

I'm sure you've modeled your revenue from families vs. other travelers and that this decision makes economic sense for you. But not for me and my family.

My family just flew Southwest two times in the past month and loved the family pre-boarding aspect, as well as the clean planes. We liked being among other families and did not mind hearing babies crying because we are parents. I guess Southwest has chosen to ignore the Maritz Research survey in which 73% of respondents believe there should be a family section on airplanes. SW was accomplishing this goal with the family pre-board in that the families sat in the front. Now that families will board between A and B, the families will be all over the plane, bothering more passengers since they will be in the front/middle. Those who complained about families getting special treatment I guess will not get the last laugh in that now they will be sitting beside the screaming child who sits next to them after they have already boarded. With the family preboarding process, those who wanted to avoid children could do so by seeing where the young children were sitting.

Jim,

I would be interested to know how many of the callers on the radio show that commented they liked the system flew with infants who did not have their own ticket.

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I avoid SWA anytime I can for on an airline that assigns seats. This business of SWA to treat us all like peons to get into a plane is ridiculous.

BE LIKE OTHER AIRLINES AN ASSIGN SEATS AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.

The new boarding system looks like it works great except it is an unwise decision to get rid of 'family first' boarding. Southwest Airlines should continue to allow families who have a child riding in a car seat to pre-board. Allowing parents with a car seat to board early allows them to install the car seat and their belongings without causing a major traffic jam. This also prevents fellow passengers from being banged by the car seat as the parent tries to push their way through the narrow aisle. Just allow the dad, mom and children to pre-board. Any other people flying with the family (other than young children who need supervison) should board like everyone else. Also, car seats are required to be installed in a window seat. If all of the window seats are taken, passengers are going to have to play musical chairs to accommodate the parent and child and this might delay the plane. Another benefit for allowing families with young children board early is so that the other passengers can choose to either sit near or far from a child. As a result, continuing to allow families with a child in a car seat pre-board is beneficial to all.

I have just finished reading ALL of the postings and the replies from Brian. I can't believe that it has taken until September 20, 2007 for you to "look into a way" to allow lap children to check in online. Your message is loud and clear--you haven't really considered families with small children at all. My 5-year-old flew Southwest enough last year to earn her own free ticket. My 3-year-old and 1-year-old flew almost as much. I used to feel gratitude for Southwest's kindness towards our family--I had no idea we were so despised! You need to remember that I will not always have small children. Although you may consider me a "real customer" after I no longer burden you with my children, I will continue to consider you my last possible option for travel.

I'm a single man with no kids. I also happen to like kids. I don't care all that much if kids are around when I do fly.

The last time I flew on Southwest, I was first off the plane both times. I attribute this mainly to the system of open seating. I actually held up a small sign: PLEASE KEEP OPEN SEATING. In summary, I have simply had better seats on Southwest.

If I were a parent, I am not sure how I would feel about the changes. It's an understatement that kids require a lot of time. I personally don't see anything wrong with the kids under five pre-boarding. However, I am also confident that such a system was abused.

As a son who lives about 1300 miles away from his own parents, I wonder about this as well. And my parents are barely able to fly anyway.

The fact of the matter is that the country's population is aging. People are getting married later and having less children. People are living longer. It's probably more common for grandparents to fly to visit their grandchildren than it is for grandchildren to fly to visit their grandparents.

My wife and I fly Southwest several times per month and we are glad to see something being done to address the growing abuse of your generous preboarding policy by many. I do however feel the whole issue could have resolved itself by seating all preboards, including handicap in the rear half of the plane. We have all witnessed those miracles in the sky.

I find it hard to believe those who threaten never to fly you again, SWA still is the best deal in town. You should be commended on your courage in addressing this situation.

The new queueing procedure is an improvement. However, the elimination of pre-boarding for families with children under four is just another in a string of decisions by Southwest that has moved me from loyal to indifferent. Along with decisions such as restricting the number of award passes on a particular flight (making it nearly impossible to use those passes for flights I need), Southwest is no longer my carrier of choice.

Southwest - perhaps you have a different customer segment in mind. But please realize that many of us that fly with young children are you former, current, and future business fliers as well. I personally carry the Southwest credit card and always seek a Southwest flight first before I consult other options (and only if necessary), but this is the end of the road for me as a loyal customer on both fronts. This seems like a small concession to make for your loyal customers during the years that this accommodation would be needed in order to gain the lifetime loyalty of those fliers. Perhaps I will return when my children are older, but for now, I can't see carrying my kid in one arm and our bags in the other as I try to board - while unintentionally hitting other passengers as I move past the first twelve rows. Especially if I had to pay for that flight because I couldn't use any of the reward passes I've earned.

As a parent of two kids under 2.5, I have to say that I wish this policy had been announced before we booked tickets to fly from Denver to Houston on Southwest for the Christmas holiday.

We have one lap child, so we won't be able to check in online, and our older daughter will be traveling in her carseat. That will leave us in the unfortunate position of trying to find seats together with the carseat at a window, while being automatically ruled out of the A boarding group because we couldn't check in online.

If Southwest had assigned seating, taking away family preboarding would be a nuisance to me but not a deal-breaker. Sure, it would hold up the boarding process in general to get the carseat and all of us situated, but that would just be like every other airline. Since there is no assigned seating, however, this new system just makes me terrified that the parents and carseat child will have to sit in middle seats scattered about the plane, which of course is an enormous safety hazard with a carseat. Having a two year old sitting apart from her parents is also a huge safety hazard, in addition to being an annoyance to end all annoyances to the de facto babysitters sitting around her.

Please, Southwest -- address these concerns. How are you going to guarantee that my family can sit together, when we can't check in online and therefore won't be part of the A boarding group? For me the pre-boarding isn't about waltzing down the jetway and taking the good seats. It's about my family being able to sit together, which minimizes the stress and irritation for all passengers on the plane.

Two questions, Brian:

1 - How are you going to handle the requirement that carseats be placed in the window seat only?

2 - Are the new restrictions going to also apply to all the senior citizens who lie and say they need a wheelchair just so they can pre-board, but then as soon as the plan lands they somehow don't need those wheelchairs anymore and scramble to be the first ones off the plane???

I am in favor of family pre-boarding so I know which seats to avoid! I prefer flying NOT seated next to a child or crying baby, so when they pre-board I can plan a more peaceful flight. (No offense to those with young children - been there, done that)

Way to go SW! All too often I have witnessed large families who are traveling together pre-board because there is just one child in the group. It is very unfair to those who wish to sit up front as these seats are usually dominated by the pre-boarders.

I suspect that many people are upset with this new policy but then again if I had been treated preferentially all these years I'd be upset as well.

Rollie,
Just because a person is 5"6 or shorter doesn't mean he or she shouldn't get the emergency exit. The last time I sat in the emergency exit was with my girlfriend. She is a couple of inches shorter than me but she is the one that sat next to the window. I can hear you saying that's not right. Well, it was right. She has a bad knee. By sitting in the emergency row with the extra leg room, she was able to stretch out her leg and be much more comfortable.

What I'm getting at is that you can't fault someone for sitting in the emergency row who is "short" without knowing her or his story.

Everybody complaining about people with young children not preboarding.
GIVE IT A CHANCE before complaining. Southwest didn't get to where it is today without some thinking before doing. I predict that this will be a great improvement for everyone. Besides, just because you have a kid why should you get special privileges?

I will now fly other carriers whenever price allows. I realize I can get my family in the "A" group but with all the other A's behind me breathing down my neck it will be more stressful than ever to get 2 little ones stowed away with all of their stuff. The competition 24 hours before the flight to get the best A slot will now be horrendous; I know I'll get on their 24 hrs in advance adn still be way down the A list when people catch on to the new system. And the farther back families go, the slower they will board.

I also fly alone a lot, and when I do, I don't want to be near anyone's kids - its best to have them seated and settled so I know where they are. Other carriers may not allow preboarding, but they assign seats and if you book early enough you can pick out your own online. Your system was better, now it is worse.

This plan will make a lot of business people happy, but will be hard on familiies so I suggest you stop flying to Orlando all together. (and remember, that family traveller you're shunning is tomorrow's business traveler.)

I also just read you tried to force families behind row 18 once. Once our kids turn 2, we pay the same as an adult for their ticket. I would have totally objected to that. Wow

By the way, I've been thinking about getting the credit card, but won't bother.

Brian Lusk wrote:
>About four or five years ago, we did require preboarding families to sit behind Row 18, but it was almmost impossible to enforce. That experience showed us that designated areas are impractical.

The new system offers an opportunity to make this work. Here's how: Announce that families board AFTER the A's. Then announce that anyone with an infant or car seat who AGREES to sit in row 18 or higher is permitted to pre-board. Make it their CHOICE, and be clear in the announcement that the row restriction will be STRICTLY enforced.

In this situation, very very few of the pre-boarders will violate the deal they just accepted. If they do, just have the cops take them off the plane. Don't accept belated apologies. They will tell all their friends what happened. That's what we want.

Why doesn't anybody try to board with a "C" pass in the "A" line? Because you enforced it strictly from the beginning, people learn that they can't cheat the system and they stop trying. Same here. There's some up-front effort, but it pays off pretty quickly.

Sean's suggestion that I ask a ticket attendant for long legroom seating has been done and rejected every time. Granted, I am "only" 6'-6" and not your example of the 7'-6" person you observed get special treatment, however, it is unfair to people sitting on either side of me to have to sit at a 45 degree angle so that my legs will fit. Some people have offered to let me sit in the aisle seat, however that requires me to sit at a 45 degree angle in the seat with my knees in the aisle to where the snack and drink carts cannot get by without my having to unbuckle and stand up to let them by (not to mention the agony of sitting for hours at an angle in a seat that was not designed for it). I once confronted a priest who had preboarded, limping with a cane, and upon arrival was sprinting off the plane. I asked him if there had been a miraculous recovery in his leg. He confessed (there's a switch) that he was feigning the injury to get more legroom. He wasn't even tall, he just likes to "stretch out". When even a PRIEST is forced to lie to get a seat, you need to look at how many other preboarders are pretending to be handicapped. What is the problem with assigned seating?

While I agree that eliminating the "cattle call" is welcome, I am VERY disappointed that Southwest is doing away with preboarding for families with young children. I think this is just another example of how our culture is becoming increasingly child-unfriendly. I do believe this will be a short-lived policy, however--it will undoubtedly frustrate both parents and those stuck behind them when parents are trying to hustle toddlers, car seats, and--carry ons down the aisle. I too will be seeking another, more child-friendly airline unless this policy changes.

I heard the announcement concerning the new seating arrangements on Southwest Airlines.

I don't fly Southwest because you waste my time. Downtown Dallas rather than DFW is not convenient unless you work downtown. The traffic to get to Love field is not worth the wait. Next the cattle car boarding wastes time because you have to get there super early to get a good seat that I could have gotten without the wait if the seating was assigned.

Travel is bad enough these days because of the new homeland security measures put in place due to 9/11. Although the security rules are necessary it adds time to travel. I don't want to add more, my time is worth something to me.

I flew Southwest airlines once, never again. I wouldn't fly Southwest even if it was free, it just isn't worth all the time wasted. I guess at age 57 I'm not one of the new generation travelers you want to attract. I've only traveled about a dozen times this year anyway, and two of those trips were out of the country. Since you don't fly to Europe there is another reason to continue with another airline.

I wish you luck, I know there are those who will fly with no one else.

I would like to encourage those flying with toddlers just give it a try. The less time they spend stuck in that seat the better!

I know my babies and I are on board!

Nicole.......still applying ;-)

This is a great system. We love flying Southwest because of the competitive rates. We live in an area that does not offer Southwest, but we make the 3 hour drive to an airport that does, just for the friendly staff and inexpensive flights. But, if you seat the passengers according to when they check in and get their boarding pass, does that mean you will eliminate the online check-in? And as far as the boarding for families with small children, I have mixed feelings. Our family traveled this summer to Orlando, there were 4 of us together. I was able to get my mother in-law and my 11 year old daughter a boarding pass in group B, but my husband and I were both in C, we were not able to sit with our daughter and his mom, nor were we able to sit together, but with her being 11 would that have qualified us to pre-board?
We tried to do everything right, I was able to check-in on line the day before for my mother in-law and daughter, but was unable to do so with my husband and myself. Also we arrived at the airport 2 1/2 hours before our flight, so that we could try to get checked in early enough to possibly be in the same boarding group, but that didn;t work. And unlike some of the other posts, no one offered to move so that we could sit together.

Before you getting upset about the pre-boarding with children, why not give it a try first. Some people don't like change of any kind and go into it with a negative attitude. Have an open mind going into it and maybe you'll be surprised. FYI, I have two kids of my own.

BINGO SEATING , Do people really get paided to think this stuff up? I never fly SWA and this is just seals the deal for me. Shoot charge an extra $5 to get an assigned seat , now you have BINGO SEATING... stupid

I love Southwest. I travel for business and pleasure and the best about Southwest is that I can sit where I want , with who I want or around who I want. So I was dreading assigned seating. I love the new seating arrrangement HOWEVER am I to understand that families with young children will board after the A group? The beauty of the families boarding first is that I knew where the children were sitting. I am a mother and grandmother who often choses to sit elsewhere.

I guess if I had just read Jeff's comments before the post I could of said "I absolutely agree, couldn't have and didn't say it better my self!

With families with small children being the 2nd group on board, I doubt anyone would have to strand their toddler with strangers! I'd like to see how long it would take a stranger to offer to move seats so that THEY don't have to sit next to your child. I'd guess about 2 seconds! :)

I am in my mid 50's and have flown with my grandson MANY times, boarding before some and after others. I had NO problem getting us on the plane. If Andrew D can't manage his children to even get them onto a plane perhaps he should drive with them. I raised 5 children all together and never expected extra considerations for it. If I couldn't manage them in a situation, we just stayed home. It's too bad today people can bear children but don't know what to do with them when they get here. Grow up and take charge! Whose's raising whom these days?

Two problems with the elimination of family pre-boarding:

1. Most people hate to sit next to kids on airplanes. Under the new policy, kids will be scattered all over the airplane, not concentrated in the front as usual. The same people who complain about families getting the "privilege" of preboarding are the people who will be complaining when they end up having to sit next to kids.

2. It will definitely slow down the boarding process. When I travel with my two small children and two carseats, I have to get both carseats installed and kids settled and snacks and toys out before the plane is ready to take off. Even when I get on first and go to the very first open seat I see, this takes up the entire boarding time and I just barely get my own seatbelt buckled before the plane starts to roll. If I have to lug those kids and carseats halfway down the aisle and then somehow stash both kids and one carseat in the seat row while installing the other carseat, you are high if you think that isn't going to stop up the entire boarding process. I will be blocking the aisle and trying to keep the kids from escaping. I'm sure all those anti-kid flyers are going to love me even more than they already do.

I'm not too worried about getting to sit together; I can lose some sleep camping on the computer to try to score an A pass (at least until the next kid is born and is a lap child for a couple of years, eliminating the possibility of online checkin.) But everyone who is in line behind me is going to be annoyed. I only hope they are as annoyed at Southwest as they are at me.

Can I just respectfully ask, "What the HECK are you thinking?!" You might as well just say "Families, please don't fly with us."

I'm a frequent Southwest traveler, and often fly with my toddler son (without my husband). He is very well behaved on planes, I am often told, but we definitely need a little extra time getting on. It isn't as much an issue walking down the aisle in the plane, but walking from the terminal TO the plane. Like many parents of very young children, I have my child in a big bulky stroller, which we are allowed to check at the plane. Once we get there, I have to unload him, take his diaper bag out, and keep my eye on him (since he can walk) while I'm trying to fold up the stroller for an attendant to take. So while having me board with folks in the A group will still mean I won't be separated from my son on the plane, it does mean that I'll being trying to unload his stroller and fold it up while others are standing right behind me. (And ten bucks says that many of them will cut in front of me if I try to politely do this on the side of the hallway).

It's tough enough flying with very young kids these days. You just made it much tougher, and I'm not convinced you made it any quicker. I can't imagine that if a family boards in the C boarding group and can't get seats together, that a flight attendant won't be asking volunteers to swap seats so the family can sit together. That takes time. And if I see a young family get separated, you'll have lost my business for good. That's just wrong!

And might I add that some travelers don't want to sit anywhere near a child. Last weekend I had the rare opportunity to travel by myself, leaving the munchkin at home. I took my book and headed for the peace and quiet toward the back of the plane. Now, if families aren't on the plane first, many of them will be sitting in the back next to people who would prefer to not sit with them...

At any rate, I hope that if you find this great little experiment doesn't work, that you'll swallow your pride and allow families to preboard again.

I CAN'T say I'll never fly Southwest again -- I just bought my tickets for Christmas a few weeks ago. But I will certainly remember, as your flight attendants say, "We know you have a choice." And in the future, I'll be less likely to choose Southwest.

Thanks for your consideration.

Having flown out of San Antonio twice under the new boarding system, I have to say I am totally in favor. I am a ten year business and vacation Southwest flyer, and rarely travel on another airline. Not having to stand in line to secure a good seat is a plus, especially when having to change planes en route. One comment I would make though: does one handicapped passenger require 10 family members assisting who also get to board early?

Laura . . . about your suggestion we take a road trip . . . road trips are fine and quite fun for shorter hauls, but they're not really a viable option for longer trips.

As a frequent business and pleasure traveler on Southwest ( a 3 time companion pass holder ), I am looking forward to the new boarding process. Having read a number of the previous posts, I am against having the families board between groups A and B. I don't think it takes that much time out of the boarding process to get them situated first. Also, as someone else pointed out, the kids will be dispersed throughout the cabin.

Southwest seems willing to change it's procedures. My bet is the pre-boarding will soon revert back to the old way.

I was relieved to see that they are not going to have assigned seats.

Laura, I'm going to assume your little jab was directed at the other Jeff who posted after me. That's the only way it makes any sense, since your initial post only reinforced my point. Otherwise, what crawled up your skirt?!? If you're one of the apparent few who is conscientious about your children's behavior in a public setting, then hats off to you. But, as you yourself wrote, that's apparently too much to ask of some people, and most of us would rather not get sucked into the dysfunction of others.

About four or five years ago, we did require preboarding families to sit behind Row 18, but it was almmost impossible to enforce. That experience showed us that designated areas are impractical.
Brian

Brian - That seemed like a good plan. I know you said it turned out to be impractical, but do you know what the reasons were?

Thank you Southwest!
I think this is the answer we have all been waiting for. This will solve not having to stand in lines for a long time... and this plan should work out great for families as well!
I already love this idea! Who thought of it? Give them a big bag of peanuts!

Oh, and Brian? I must have missed it. Exactly what is the rationale behind the change in preboard policy? As I noted earlier, it's not at all clear how this improves boarding efficiency in any way. And please don't just respond that it tested well in San Antonio.

I FLY SWA once or twice a week. My prioities are simple (a) a safe flight (b) being on time . If you do anything to impact your safety record or your on time record you'll see the back of my head as I walk to another airline ... Also I really like your flexibility. If you become one of those other tight butted airlines ... I may walk away as well. I love SWA. As my dearly departed Italian mother used to say ... "don't mess with the old family recipe!!!"

Hey Brian, seems like you've got a PR pickle on your hands. Best of luck.

The whole preboard process frustrates me. I have seen a number of people "limp" onto the plane, and run off when it has landed. Many years ago I had a flight on Frontier Airlines, which offered open seating also. When they annouced Pre-Boarding was about to start, a number of people headed to the Gate, when they continued with that Pre-Boarder's had to sit in rows 15 and higher, the number or Pre-Boarders dropped. Imagine that. I also feel that those that need to be helped on the plane, should be the last off the plane. (I realize that would be hard to police, but if they were in the back, it would help) Just a thought.

Your elimination of the preboarding policy for families with young children is insane.

As a mother of a toddler, I am wise enough to purchase a seat for my daughter - for her safety and in respect for others on the plane. Have YOU ever tried to install a carseat in an airplane? It takes time, space and patience. Now I will have none of those resources. Instead, I will be blocking the aisle and knocking people in the head with the carseat, all while getting nasty looks. What a good idea!

Perhaps I should be pleased? If I'm not able to find seats together for my family, someone else can entertain my child throughout the 5 hour trip to Chicago...

This sounds like a great idea. I'm so glad you didn't go back to assigned seating.

To all those who say, "Give it a try": Did you read Rachel's post a few posts back? She has already gone through the trial at San Antonio with a toddler, and she said that, while the new boarding is mostly great, the lack of preboarding with a baby was terrible. They were in the A group and still did NOT get to sit together because the plane was so full with people traveling through! This is exactly what people are worried about.

Southwest, are you listening?

As a parent of 2 small children, who I have to buy seats for, seats that cost the same as everyone elses, I would be in favor of sitting at the rear of the plane if i pre-board. I would also be in favor of only 2 adults being able to preboard with children (no 9 family members for 1 kid type of thing, but I really don't see that sort of abuse much anyway). Honestly, why couldn't you try something like that first instead of dicthing it altogether? The more I think about it the more I am disappointed. It just seems like a monumentally stupid decision. I really hope you change it or you will be losing a lot of business.

Flying with a baby is already a chore. Thanks to this new seating plan, it's going to become much harder. What the hell are you folks thinking?

Before I had a kid I was happy that most of them were seated in the front and already on when I got on - so I could avoid them. Now that I have one, I love being able to get all my stuff on (yes you need carseats etc. - most people don't travel with them for fun) and out of the way.

Moves like this will make me and may family avoid flying your airline when we can, and won't sweeten our attitude when we have to.

I hope all the travels that support this end up sitting next to a fussy baby and an even fussier parent!!

I think the new boarding procedure at Southwest is going to be a win-win situation for everyone. Not only you are assigned into a boarding group, you are assigned a place in line in that boarding group. That way, those who arrive at the airport early enough (and are in the A boarding group especially) can go ahead and enjoy the amenities an airport has to offer. That way, you don't have to worry about getting to your gate early and having to stake out your place in line - your place in line is already reserved for you.

As for preboarding policy, I agree Southwest made a change in the right direction. I believe preboarding should be restricted to those who are disabled (and, consequently, need the extra time going down the jetway to the plane) and unaccompanied children ages 5 through 11. We can't forget those who have to purchase a second seat for a valid reason as well (from what I understand those having to purchase a second seat can courtesy preboard per current Southwest policy and I am not sure if this policy will continue under the new preboard policies). All too often on my recent travels on Southwest (especially not too long ago when I recently took a trip to LAX for a few days) I have seen large groups of families in the preboard line. Why? If your family group includes a child 5 years of age or under your family group qualified for preboarding! In my opinion, these large family groups who preboard sometimes grab the good seats and those of us in general boarding, especially when you are one of the first few in Boarding group A like myself, I feel are denied the opportunity to grab a good seat. After all, traveling from TPA to FLL is just a short flight but when you are traveling from TPA to BWI or LAX and vice versa, that's a long haul and indeed finding a good seat on the plane is a must.

Personally, the last time I have ever used preboarding was with my mother back in 1998 when she took me out to SFO (San Francisco) as a graduation present for completing my second associates' degree. (However, we flew on another airline which I won't mention here). My mother was disabled and she could not walk a considerable distance nor stand for a long time. I had to assist my mother down the jetway and to our seats. Sadly, two years later in 2000 I lost my mother to a heart attack. This is a good example of how preboarding should be used for, whether it's Southwest or another airline.

It's been tested in San Diego and recently in San Antonio - let's give this new boarding policy and procedure a try. But I think in the end this will be a win-win situation for everyone!

What about those with lap infants who can't check in ahead of time to get an A boarding pass with the rest of their family? We relied on preboarding because we already had to get to the airport so early just to wait in line and fill out the lap child paperwork. At least after all those other lines we got to have time to get settled with our little ones. It has been my experience that by the time you get through the lines at the ticket counters with a lap infant, you are almost always a "Group C" boarder. I'm going to have to reconsider Southwest as my preferred airline if the lap infant policy isn't addressed.

I fly over 100,000 miles a year. Because of the few times I have had no choice but to fly southwest
I have found your open seating to make me feel like I am part of a heard of cows. Your open seating is why I do not fly Southwest and why I do not book any of my people on Southwest. It is awful and I have found it to be a degrading process so we just do not fly Southwest.

I don't understand the "open seating" to begin with. Isn't it safer to know where everybody is sitting? One of the fortunate things about the 9-11 hijackings was that the flight attendants could identify the seats where the hijackers came from -- so we knew who they were, or at least how they registered for their tickets. How does TSA let Southwest continue its seating practice??

Or suppose somebody dies on the flight and her identificatgion is in a bag up in the overhead with a kazillion other bags -- how long will it take to figure out who that person is, rooting through bags etc to find identification? If her seat were assigned, you'd probably have all her information right away.

I generally like flying SWA but I always thought their seating policy was kind of nutty for this day and age -- and it looks like it will continue to be so.

If your plan was to make your business travelers happy then congrats you did it....

If you thought families wouldn't mind being told that the "A" people should board first just because they were "A" people - well you were wrong...

I understand you think that boarding between A and B there will be seats left for families to sit together but what about those flights that have many people "staying on the plane"?

Why is it quicker between A and B ? But NOT quicker before A??? Where did that reasoning come in??? Truly you just don't want to p-off your "A" people off.... but its OK to p-off the families?

Those of you that posted that you don't understand why families should board first obviously don't have small children... I didn't understand either until I had them... Boarding first is a blessing and a gift and SWA just took that gift away from its families...

I think you will loose a lot of families to their cars or other discount fliers... we are flying SWA this weekend and need tickets for Christmas.... My husband asked "Why are you even looking at Southwest? We aren't flying them any more...."

by the way... families don't sit up front because the are the "coveted seats!!" If you flew with children you would know we sit up front because it is the closest available seat and it beats taking ANYONE UNDER 10 down the aisle past 20 other rows!!!

and Teresa... getting an A ticket still doesn't give people with small children the time or ROOM to get on the plane and get the car seat strapped in along with diaper bag etc... if you have ever tried it you have about 50 irritated people behind you pushing you and your kid to hurry up and move it....

Eliminating pre-boarding for families eliminates my need to ever fly Southwest again, and Southwest is the only airline we've flown since my son was born. We have a four-year-old and a one-year-old, and between the bags of toys and snacks (since there's no food on any airline anymore) and the fact that someone has to fold up the stroller at the bottom of the gate, etc. boarding is already a nightmare that generally leaves me sweating and nearly in tears. If I now have to do this without even knowing if we'll have seats together and that maybe I'm going to have to beg a perfect stranger to get up - well, what's the point?

To those people who say, let the families board first but make them sit at the back of the plane - the back of the plane gets the worst turbulence. You've clearly never been covered with vomited milk when your 15-month-old, who can't tell you he's feeling airsick, pukes all over you and your entire row. The front of the plane is MUCH better for airsickness.

By the way, we NEVER take the bulkhead row, it's miserable with kids. The extra legroom is worthless when you do not have tray tables or cup holders, and kids' legs are short to begin with and they don't need it. I always leave that row for kids travelling alone and disabled people.

The biggest problem with preboarding is those people who clearly have no reason to be standing in the preboard line. I've stood in that line before with families with one two-year-old and - no joke - 12 adults. That's abuse and it shouldn't be allowed by the gate agents. The parents or one parent and one other traveling companion are all that should be allowed to preboard with a small child. And I've stood there with perfectly able-bodied, single adult travelers, usually with briefcases, carrying that blue plastic boarding sleeve. Who knows what they did to get it, but it certainly wasn't because they required extra time. My guess is we'll still see those people, while the families sweat and try not to bash anybody else in the head with their carseats as they lug them down the aisles.

I am really disappointed in SWA regarding the announcement to drop family pre-boarding. As a traveling family, with grandmas and grandpas in Portland and Houston, we have frequently commented on our love for SWA and its preboard policy. We were always ensured seating together, and we were out of the way prior to general boarding. I simply cannot begin to relate my level of displeasure at the idea that our family could be separated (or have to beg people to change seats to sit together). Does some other adult actually think that this new procedure is so much better that they would prefer having someone's small child sitting next to them without a parent? Does that really save any time or aggravation? I think not. Funny thing is that I bet all who complain about kids and families had courtesies (such as or akin to preboarding) extended to them when they were small.

Its all over the blog, but A boarding for families is not good enough!!! It does not give you the time that is needed to get situated. I understand the policy and have flown with and without kids. When I don't have my kids I don't want to sit next to kids at all if I can control it. When I have my kids I don't want to be inconvienced and I don't want to go through the stress of incoviencing others. Stop the abuse of seniors and children pre-boarding, but honestly this is a joke!!!! The question is were do I book for Christmas the time is ticking will the rules change in time?

I really like the change to letter-plus-number seating. In addition to reverting to letting children board first, here are a couple of other suggestions for faster and happier boarding:
1) Put a short section of "practice" overhead bin (with door) in the waiting area at each gate with a sign explaining "good bag etiquette and technique". Encourage waiting passengers to practice putting their bags in the quickest most space-efficient way and to check that the door can close. I know your bins vary somewhat between planes but hopefully not that much that it wouldn't still work. It would also allow people with extra large bags to check if they will fit know they have to check it. If people would just put their bags in end-wise if they fit and push them up against the wall or next bag, and therefore take up minimum space, we could reduce the all-too-frequent occurrence of late-B and C groupers holding up the process while they search for a bag space or someone having to rearrange previously-placed bags to make space. You also need to train your flight attendants better in looking for opportunities to rearrange bags slighly (usually turn and slide together) and make new spaces rather than closing the bin door when it appears at first glance to be full.
2) Work with bag manufacturers to affix a "LUVly Bag" tag to bags that will fit end-wise in the bins on all SWA planes. In addiiton to knowing this bag will have a better chance of squeezing into the last space in a bin, the bag purchaser can show the bag, and surrender the tag, to a SWA service counter agent at any airport for one Rapid Rewards credit (maximum one per RR account to prevent pilfering or trading of tags). You may be able to get some bag manufacturers to also affix a semi-permanent discreet LUVly Bag badge that the owner can leave there.

OK -- by eliminating preboarding for children under age 4, I have now eliminated SWA from any future flying considerations. On to airlines with some heart and legroom.

I understand the need for the new boarding procedures, however, as a mother of a toddler and a new baby, as well as an avid Southwest flyer (our only airline), I am extremely disappointed and upset about the new boarding rules regarding families with young children. I have seen that the flexibility with families pre-boarding with children has been taken to some extremes, but why punish all families and parents? It takes close to an act of God just to get young children gathered for a flight anywhere...pre-boarding was one of the highlights we had in our numerous flights to see extended family. I think Southwest is doing a great disservice to all families with this new rule - perhaps this "friendly" airline should rethink this policy. Perhaps set up better ground rules so the "pre-boarding" privilege is not taken advantage of. Limit the number of family members relevant to children. Set an age limit on children who can preboard. There has to be a better way then shutting us all out of pre-boarding - especially those with very young children.
This is making me rethink my airline of choice. Seriously, for the last 5 years, all my family has flown has been southwest airlines. Now, not so sure...

Terrible thing to put kids all over the place. Give the kiddies the preboard.

Thank you for considering this new procedure. After my last Southwest flight a couple of weeks ago, there was only one thought in my mind..."unacceptable." I made up my mind to fly Southwest only if I am forced to do so, despite any cost difference. This new system may change my mind.

Again,
thanks for everyone's comments. One thing I found out yesterday--in the month or so that we have been testing the new procedures in San Antonio, I was told that families boarding after A were able to fly together on every flight. Obviously, that 100 percent record won't always hold true, but it doesn't hold true on airlines that assign seats either. Also keep in mind that just because an airline assigns seats, you won't always get your choice of seats. On full flights, someone is going to have to sit in a center seat, no matter the boarding process.

Someone (Cindy in Houston?) asked me why our designated rows for preboarders wasn't practical. The biggest reason was that many preboarders refused to sit in the rows beyond row 18, and it was very hard to enforce.

And to everyone with doubts, please read Gary's last paragraph above. Many folks in the San Antonio tests were sceptical until they actually experienced the new procedures.
Brian

IM GLAD YOU FINALLY DID DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS I FLY SOUTHWEST ALL THE TIME I HAVE WITNESS ALOT OF PREBOARD PEOPLE IN LINE THAT DO NOT NEED TO BE THERE FAMILY WITH KIDS YES BUT NOT WHEN THE WHOLE FAMILY OF 10 TRY TO GET ON THAT IS JUST RUDE I WILL BE LOOKING FOWARD TO THE NEW SYSTEM IM FLYING IN NOVEMBER . SOUTHWEST KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK I LOVE YOU GUYS

I am very excited about these changes. I am one of those line campers. I am heavier than most and like an isle seat so I can lean away from the middle person and not take thier space. Also I hate the family pre boarding. I was there first, I got an A ticket, they come in whenever they want. I have seen a family with one child get prioity seating. Two adults can handle one child.
Also I think you were probably right in kicking off that girl in the short skirt. Why didn't Matt ask her if she had on thong underware. She had that skirt pulled way down on tv, but you know anywhere else, when she sat down and crossed her legs, or if she bent over to pick up her purse, everyone got a flash.

If you are traveling with small children, and check in early....you will still be able to get on sooner. This is aimed at the families that show up late and still get to preboard. Some of us follow the rules, get to the airport 1-2 hours early, wait in line, but still have to wait longer while the family with 4 small children run up and get to go on first. Remember The Early Bird gets the worm, or in this case seat. If you don't like SWA new policy, please take your family elsewhere-More peanuts for me!

Until they have assigned seating, I will never fly Southwest. I did once years ago and did not like the experience.

This will make a huge difference for me and my huge breifcase. I am definitely against all the line jumpers. By the way MEG did you try to impress us with big words. You didn't.

AMEN! Stephanie that posted her comment on September 19th. I am with you. Everything you describe is exactly what I experience with my 18 month old. SWA needs to re-think this change. I am like you, most people don't want to sit next to you with a small one. You are right if those people board and think they are getting a prime seat and then we show up with a little one, they cringe! Pre-boarding eliminates that feeling for everyone. We get on with the little ones and then only those brave soles who wish to sit next to us choose to do so and the ones that don't can choose somewhere else to sit and then everyone is happy!! But the other way around will make it uncomfortable for everyone!!

Ruth: Assigned seating is so archaic! You don't get to choose....I am not sure why you like that type of system. Don't you like to either be in front or back of the plane with a window, isle or center seat? Many times you don't get a choice with assigned seating but at SWA you do. You just have to follow the system and sign in 24 hours in advance. Get an A boarding pass and you are on your way to flying bliss! If you really like assigned seating then stay with all the others and leave us loyal SWA customers to the way we like they do things!

My complaint about Southwest boarding procedures is that being a senior I have to check in at the ticket counter to get a boarding pass . This gives the people yhat can get their pass online an unfair advantage to get a A or B ticket.

NO YOU ARE NOT LISTENING!!!!!!
MY FAMILY OF 5 is the problem. We are now all over 5yrs old and not eligible to board first.
The problem is not the first leg of our trip, when we can get on the computer and obtain an A Boarding Pass. The problem is on the return home from grandmom's with no computer, or vacation land with no computer access, or if we just plain forgot to obtain the pass 24 hrs ahead.
We should not be put through the worry of stressed out kids who think for hours that we can't sit together.
During the holidays when we board a plane sometimes it is already enroute, meaning even an A Boarding pass may not get you a seat together. Believe me when you are traveling with children under the age of 12 sitting together is a BIG DEAL.
Check out the Virgin Air website, it lets people pick and reserve their own seats.
WHY CAN"T WE JUST GET A SEAT ASSIGNMENT????? IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF COMPUTERS.

I had always thought that the A, B, C method of boarding meant that the A group would board first and go all the way to the back of the plane. B in the middle, and C in the front third. This would be the *most* efficient boarding of an aircraft so people don't have to climb over others to get farther back.

But alas, people have used it to pick their favorite seats, even if it means everyone else has to push past them to get to their seats. STil better than assigned seats though from a customer perspective.

This blog is just too long to read, so perhaps what I'm saying has already been said. But I think discontinuing the children pre-boarding is a tremendously bad idea. And I may have the details wrong cause I can't find details on it. Think it through, guys. So worse case my 3 year old will have to sit between two strangers? I would tell you what I think of that but there would be a lot of four letter words involved. Get to the airport early? Well gee, the earlier you get, and thats over an hour plus now because of all the extra time it takes to get through security and such with kids, the worse they behave later in the plane. I believe the people deciding this perhaps are some smart young MBA's without kids? And yes, don't blame the kid cause you were exactly like that when you were a kid. Oh, I can just sit with my hand on the keyboard and click check in at home? Well, no because of our wonderful Homeland Security list that has a similar name to mine requires about half the time I am refused electronic check in (I guess I'm a security risk only half the time? bizzare). What many of the comments here completely fail to comprehend is that while individuals can pack and hit the airport with little thought (I do that myself when traveling alone once a month), parents with small kids have a huge amount of work they put into this with organizing food, entertainment, clothing/diapers, lugging child seat, and figuring out the crazy rules to get through security (yes, that twit really is standing there in a uniform telling me that he is confiscating my 2.5oz bottle because my zip lock bag its in is one gallon instead of one quart and yet there is only my toothbrush and chapstick as the other items in it). Anyway, Southwest, it should be obvious I could go on for an hour on this, but to get back to the point, I think this is a tremendously bad idea that is yet another case of fresh young MBA quality decisions without really considering the results.

SWA ought to do as the others do, assign seats. Until they do, they remain my second choice,if all other factors are the same like,price and schedule.

I have traveled on SWA for many years. In fact our family is not only frequent flyer member, we have SWA visa and have earned a campion pass for the year. I CAN NOT TELL YOU HOW DISAPPOINTED I AM IN YOUR NEW SEATING POLICY. I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT YOU WILL CHANGE IT SOON! If you think other cutomers are bothered by my family boarding a FEW minutes before them, just wait unitl my FIVE kids are stuck in line for an hour with your other passengers. No child can wait as long as it takes to board a plane. They will be bumping into people, aruging over who's turn it is, needing to use the restroom and get water. You think you have complaints now! Then when we get on plane. They may end up sitting with some other customer. Asking them to help with opening this or cleaning up that.

AND I HOPE YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR WHEN CHILDREN ARE EXPOSED TO ADULT CONVERSATION!

More than once I have had to remind passengers that there are children on the plane and could they please hold that until my kids can't hear them. and I am not a crazy parent. These are conversations that include family problem with drugs, teenagers having sex, foul language, etc.

I WILL BE CHOOSING A NEW AIRLINES FOR OUR FAMILY, but maybe that is the goal of SWA.

As I mentioned above, I'm against any policy to eliminate the child pre-board. The comments that the adminstrator deleted and other comments provides another reason not to eliminate the pre-board. Clearly there are people who are very angry for whatever reason about children and airplanes. Allowing pre-board provides the freedom of those wingnuts to sit away from children. Those angry people can get on the plane, see where the kids are, and sit elsewhere. Isn't that a win-win situation?

Look, Southwest, do you need help? Then ask. Most of us really like this airline. And many of us here are professionals and/or are providing you some professional level ideas. I do statistics and financial analysis. It seems to me from all this that your consultants may have sold you a very poorly thought out study that concluded you should eliminate pre-board for kids. Don't take it personally. Dive down into this and likely there are about three people, probably consultants, behind this. Comments against eliminating pre-board are not comments against your airline, it is against those three people's judgment on this one issue. For example, their study probably didn't consider the elimination of freedom of choice for those who can get on a plane to not sit next to a child if thats their preference. And potential liability if someone like that extremely angry guy whose comments got deleted takes action when the baby in the next seat is crying during the landing. If I'm seated pre-board with my child, someone who sits next to me will probably not have a problem with limited child misbehavior, but if I get on in the middle of boarding I won't know I'm sitting down next to such a nutcase.

Brian: There was a comment, I believe it was all in caps, that self-censored itself with a bunch of %$#$% type stuff that referred to groups getting on first because they had one child with them. Maybe its just me, but my memory of that comment was that it was very angry and threatening. Perhaps I've had too much coffee today. I'll stop now. By coincidence, I'm booking a flight today with you and should be doing that now instead of letting the time go by and losing the chance for cheaper seats.

OK, Brian. I'll try this again, since it still has not been addressed:

Exactly what is the rationale behind the change in preboard policy? As I noted earlier, itÃ

Brilliant, gang! The best of both worlds! I knew LUV would find a way.

Looking forward to trying things out for myself.

Your pal,
Mark Turner
RR flyer from way back

Brian, thaks for your response, though it doesn't really answer my question.

I am NOT supportive of the new numbering system -- it simply rewards those who got to their computer first rather than those who got to the airport first. But I can see why some people might not have liked things the way they were and how this new policy could have evolved from the evaluation process.

But I'm asking specifically about the PRE-BOARD policy change with regard to children. Again, what is the rationale for the change? What problems were found in the existing policy? How does the new policy alleviate those problems? Unless I'm missing something (and please clue me in if I am) NOTHING about the new policy promotes greater efficiency in the boarding process. Am I to believe from your response that it came about simply because some customers suggested it?

Brian,

Since the comments on this blog don't seem to post in real time, you apparently got a follow up posted (at 3:08 p.m.) while my following post (3:21 p.m.) was "awaiting moderation." Your 3:08 reply does provide some further clarification, but I'm still wondering about the questions I raised in the 3:21 post.

One point in your 3:08 comment left me perplexed -- and points back to the questions I raised in the 3:21 post: you say that "Both general boarding and family Customers found the experience to be slightly less stressful than the current system." Again, I can see how some of the general boarders may feel that way regarding the adoption of the numbering system within the A, B and C groups, but that "less stressful" determination with regard to the new pre-boarding policy seems completely incongruous with the vast majority of comments on this board and many, many others throughout cyberspace.

So, it gets back to the questions I asked at 3:21 (again, this is specifically about the policy on pre-boarding): What is the rationale for the change? What problems were found in the existing policy? How does the new policy alleviate those problems? I find it extremely hard to believe that data supports customer satisfaction with this change when ALL the evidence to which we have access suggests the contrary.

I applaud this new way of boarding. I'll make a bet that most of the persons complaining have cut in line, abused the family privilege, or simply like to complain.

The last time I flew LUV to Orlando, there was one family with about 12 people who all "had" to sit together. Also, we were in the A group and waited patiently in line. When boarding began, there were 2 people in line up front for this one family - then all of a sudden, up rushed the other 8 members of the clan and cut in front of everyone. iThis, my friends, is why the new process is here. 5% of people cause 95% of the trouble in this world, and boarding an airliner is not different.

As per families, I can see where larger families may have a problem sitting together boarding between A + B, especially on continuation flights, where there are still passengers on board the plane. I kind of agree, that it is not a good idea to split up TRUE families (not the whole clan).

How to define what a family actually is as it pertains to boarding is where the rub lies. To me, that is two parents (or one) and their minor children - not Aunt Ida, Uncle Joe, Granny 1, Granny 2, and all the cousins.

There are 3 seats to a row. If a family needs more than 2 rows (2 adults, 4 children), then maybe they should have another adult along to help out with the kids. So, my definition of a family group would be, at max, 2 adults + 4 children = 2 rows of 3. Not 3 adults and 3 children Or in rare cases, 1+5.

For infirm adults (another dubious claim to preboard), it's the infirm person + one caregiver.

LUV needs to attract more business flyers. By doing so, it keeps fares down for everyone else. In fact, I would gladly pay $20 a flight to buy first dibs at a seat, especially on longer flights. The bottom line is this: Fares will always be low, and demand for seats high. If LUV can make a few more bucks and still keep the seats full, I do not fault them one bit.

As to the complainers who say they will never fly LUV again, that's more hot air than comes out of the jet engine. However, there ARE other airlines. In fact, I flew one recently, and compared my worst LUV experience, it was 20 times worse, and I paid way more for it.

Thanks LUV, for bringing order to the process and putting the cutters in place!

There are a couple of reasons why I imagine Southwest wants parents traveling with infants to board after at least 60 other people have boarded the plane:

-- Southwest is giving preferene to the road warrior/business traveler who always checks in on-line 24 hours before departure (the current Southwest policy does not allow parents traveling with a lap child to check in on-line ahead of time).

-- Southwest wants parents to buy a ticket for their lapchild (more revenue for Southwest). I think this would allow us to check in on-line ahead of time and possibly get us an A ticket.

-- Southwest received complaints from people who stood in the A line for a long time only to be pre-empted by parents traveling with children.

Like SMF Jeff, I'd really like to know why Southwest made the Pre-board change. Yes, I will try out the new policy before I complain; I already bought a ticket for late October. But I will not feel bad if I hold up other passengers while trying to get my toddler, my purse and a tote bag safely stowed before getting out of the aisle and allow other people to pass.

-julie

Many years ago I lived in the beautiful city of Denver, Colorado. The orginal Frontier Airlines was a very popular choice for air travel, and I had made plans to fly with my 4yr old daughter to attend my brother's wedding in Salt Lake City. Frontier Airlines had pre-assigned seating. When I arrived at the gate, the Frontier employee handed me the two boarding passes---never saying a word that the seats were several rows apart. I did not notice this until several minutes had passed. I approached the gate agent, explaining that I was flying with my 4yr old daughter and needed to be seated next to each other. He very rudely stated that was impossible as there were no two seats left next to each other. I was greatly shocked and truely did not know what to do other than to accept the seat assignments. (Also, we were not even permitted to pre-board the plane.) Thankfully a dear gentlemen noticed my problem , and he kindly changed seats so my daughter and I could be seated together. I will always remember his kindness and at the same time remember the rudeness of the Frontier Airline employees --including the flight attendants.
Now for the present day: I have flown Southwest Airlines many times--and the Southwest passengers remind me of the kind gentleman of years ago. I have seen passengers change seats gladly to accomodate the need for children to set with their family. I have also seen the Southwest flight attendants be thoughtful with the needs of all passengers. I do recommend when you purchase your airline tickets, to do so as e-tickets/ticketless. In the majority of cases, you can obtain your boarding pass on-line as early as 24 hours before departure. (Even if you don't check in on-line; boarding after the A group will work out--remember the Southwest flight attendants are very helpful---they are there to help all passengers and to have the flight depart on time/or as close to on time as possible.)
Every company looks for ways to try to improve their operations. I trust that Southwest Airlines will carefully monitor the new boarding procedures--and if changes need to be made again--they will do so. The LUV AIRLINE is a GREAT AIRLINE !! (fyi: my daughter is now an adult and lives in a city that Southwest does not fly to. (Delta is the main airline there--so very few choices
when I go to visit her.---SOUTHWEST ----PLEASE consider flying into either Atlanta, GA or Columbia, SC--either would make me very happy.)
Keep up the great work and Thanks for your LUV!!!!

Maybe this has since changed - two years ago we used Southwest Vacations to plan a trip. The only problem, by using Southwest Vacations, we were not able to check in online which now, it appears, will have even greater emphasis with respect to trying to fly together as a family. Is this still the case with using Southwest Vacations - no online boarding pass/check-in?

We always look at SWA as the "model" airline for all that is customer service. Open seating is without a doubt the most efficient and less labor intensive program out there!
Because you have an assigned seat on our airline does not mean that you are guaranteed a seat next to your child. The computer assigns seats and unfortunately, not always together.

The only ?? I have is this. How are you going to meet your "on time" demands? Boarding children with car seats takes up so much time! Per FAA car seats cant impede egress, you need time to secure the car seat, time to strap baby in, time to store extra carry on's, etc etc. If they are not allowed to pre-board with wheelchairs, you will inevitably push late.

I, for one, love open seating. Trust me, if the airplanes are on the ground, no one makes money.

Folks im doing this at home with my BlackBerry so I ask you to forgive any typos.

Mr. Weiss, my arms are still tired from moving the chairs the first time. Seriously, I dont know if the SAT gates are in their final state or not.

Jeff, I really dont know what else to say.The past year we have examined almost every wa known to man to putfolks on aircraft. These two procedures worked the best. With all due respect, your "facts" are speculation based on skepticism. All along I have been upfront in that folks were sceptical until they tried it. I will also be honest in that we arent infallible, but we made our best judgment. The proof will be in the pudding.

To the comment about what will we do if a connecting passenger arrives after boarding has started--I answered this above. Also, the same thing happens under our current system.

Have a great weekend folks.

Brian

A tip of the hat to Brian. With all of us, including myself, strongly disagreeing with the new policy about pre-boards, he was always diplomatic and respectful. I've been reading the blog 2-3 times a day since this subject started. Wow, i as said on the very first comment, zillions of comments. Again, thanks Brian for your answers, even if I don't understand why you think us frequent flyers want children to board after us in A. Should have had the test hete in MCO....

One more thing -- to all the people whining that they can't check in online from the destination leg of their trip, do what we do. Call a relative or friend on the phone and have them check in for you. Then all you have to do is reprint your boarding pass at the airport. Voila! How often are you outside of phone coverage 24 hrs. prior to your return flight?

I like the new boarding procedure with one exception.....families! I always make sure I am a couple of rows behind any family...not because of the noise...noise cancellation headphones take care of that problem..but because I always get the 'seat-kicker' with the 'unaware' parent behind me.
I think families with children under 4 should still be preboarded and give the rest of us a chance to stay away from them.
With this new policy, I think I would rather have a B pass, and take my chances for two seats together for my husband and myself.