To Assign or Not to Assign, That is the Question
To Assign or Not to Assign, That is the Question
As many of you know, the question about whether to keep our open seating or to assign seats has been the Southwest question for the past couple of years. Proponents of each process have been very vocal and heartfelt in support of their positions, and my post of last summer generated more than 700 comments (including those on a followup post). To those who weighed in on this issue, thank you, and I assure you that your voices were heard.
After much investigation, which included extensive "real life" testing in San Diego and San Antonio, we are ready to close the book on "the great seating experiment" and announce our decision. (If we had drums, we could have a drum roll at this point, but we don't, so imagine one in your mind.) Southwest has decided to keep open seating, but to adopt a new and improved boarding process. These decisions were based on the input we got from you, our Customers, through this blog, written correspondence, and surveys taken during the tests. While a substantial majority of our Customers prefer the ability to select their own seats onboard the aircraft, many of those folks have told us they don't like our existing boarding procedure that sometimes has Customers doing everything possible to be at the front of their boarding group. Instead, many of you suggested, why not board the aircraft in the numerical order of the boarding pass?
Well, we listened to you! After initial tests in San Diego last fall, we conducted a full-scale evaluation in San Antonio last month, and the responses we received were very favorable. Basically, the new boarding procedure divides the airplane into groups of five Customers, based upon the order in which a Customer checks in. The first Customer gets an A 1 and so on, and they will line up to board in their group of five. (To the extent possible, our gates will be modified with marked columns that reflect these new boarding groups.) Customers will know where their boarding pass aligns in the process as soon as they check in, and this will eliminate the need to "camp out" and hold a spot in the boarding lines. For a full description of the new process and to see the comments, click here to read Susie Boersma's August 23 post.
Our goal is to have the new boarding process up and running systemwide by early November. I am fully aware that this news will excite many and disappoint others. To those of you who are skeptical, I can only ask that you give the new boarding procedures a try. After everyone gets used to it, I bet you will wonder why we didn't think of this years ago!
(Click here to see a video of the new procedures. Also, check out this helpful site.)
Comments
Flying out of MCO, I look forward to the new procedure. I bet I am the first of a zillion comments. Thanks for listened to the majority..
Thumbs up on the new seating arrangements. I'm looking forward to giving it a try. I only hope you'll be on top of the game to deter the ones that will always come up with a gimmick to try and beat the system. Good going SWA.
I just heard on cnbc that families and adults with children will not be allowed to board 1st. If this is true, I have officially flown with southwest for the last time.
I can't wait. This might be the first enhancement any airline has made in the last ten years that is beneficial to the passenger. So many "enhancements" have been considered "de-hancements" by customers.
The new process looks like a definite improvement and I cannot wait to experience it for myself.
Also, thank you for keeping open seating!
WAY TO GO SOUTHWEST!!! ANOTHER REASON WHY I WILL KEEP ON FLYING SOUTHWEST.. THEY LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS AND TO THEIR EMPLOYEES!!!! I WAS GETTING TIRED OF ARRIVING AT THE AIRPORT EXTRA EARLY JUST TO WAIT IN LINE TO BOARD.. I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A POSITIVE CHANGE... THANKS FOR LISTENING AND THANKS FOR KEEPING YOUR OPEN SEATING POLICY...
FRANCISCO
Yes!!! Hello Southwest and goodbye Midwest Airlines. I am am weekly business traveler from Kansas City and flew on Midwest becasue of the past boarding procedures. You have earned my business now Southwest, thank you.
I think it's a great idea and I also like that they are doing away with preboarding for families with children. The only ones that MAY need extra time are families with a car seat.
Thumbs up SWA. Looking forward to the new system.
Thumbs up SWA.
I agree with andrew d's comments regarding families with small children. The rationale that boarding children after group A will save time is misinformed. It is difficult at best to travel with children under age 4, and forcing parents to take children through twelve to twenty rows instead of one or two with assorted necessities will impact all those trying to board a plane in a timely fashion. Though I have been a loyal Southwest customer for many years, I will seek other carriers regardless of the price.
Seems to be a great solution that eliminates the "line camping" crowd. And from what I've read, the San Antonio crowd love it!
I have also read of a possible plan to place family pre-boarders after "A "and before "B". I believe this would be a wise choice as it would seemingly speed up your critical "turn" time while also allowing families to sit together. I am appalled at travelers who won't move over a seat to allow an 8 year old sit next to his mom if they got stuck with a "C". If you are a solo adult traveler who has not been courteous, shame on you.
My suggestion would to allow any family with kids under, say, 12 to board at the beginning of "B". They don't slow down the "A"s but still can get 2 seats together even in a worst case scenario as they will be folks 61 through maybe 70 allowed onto the plane. With 137 seats, no worries there. What I don't approve of is the "stretching" of the pre-board rules (as done now) that seemingly has half the plan loaded before the "A" group gets on. Everyone with a slight limp seems to get on early!
Again, fantastic step in the right direction!
I am disappointed to hear about the changes in family boarding. As one of the last airlines to allow families to preboard, Southwest had become our preferred carrier. It also gave Southwest that characteristic "nice" vibe. This change puts Southwest right back in the pool as just another unsatisfying option.
Hi Andrew D and GSK,
keep in mind that families are always eligible to board with the A group if they have A boarding passes. Also, many of the families in our San Antonio tests initially felt as you two do, but when they tried the new procedures they actually liked it because they felt less rushed to stow their items. All I can ask is that you give it a try before giving up.
Brian
I am confused. If I know what my number is, how do I know the number of other people in line. Does this mean I have to go through the line asking each person in my group what their number is?
Y'all need to do a better job of publicizing the "If the family has A" aspect of the new family boarding policy.
I'm not wild about the new policy for a reason I haven't heard mentioned: It seems like a very good idea to have the families grouped together. Not only does it spare other travelers the necessary travails of traveling with kids, but it lets the kids make contact with each other (thus reducing boredom).
I've heard rumors that Southwest is considering charging a surcharge for A boarding passes. That is the day that I fly SWA for the last time. The main attraction of SWA, to me, is that it is a meritocracy, not an aristocracy -- you get to pick your favorite seat and so forth if you're on the ball, not if you're willing to spend extra.
If SWA becomes an aristocracy airline like all the rest, it will have to compete for my affections, and it probably won't win.
Will this new procedure continue to be used only when getting the boarding pass 24 hours in advance of ones flight? Or will a change be made in the future where this system will be effective when booking the reservation? Change to families boarding is a plus especially when the majority of family members are over the age of 20.
After watching the video, I believe it is a better system. However, there may be unintended consequences in the boarding process as a result of how the system retrieves your boarding pass 24 hours before your flight. With a lot of people trying to log in to get their prime "A" boarding pass position exactly at the 24 hour mark, there is a good probability that if a couple has two different reservation numbers (because they are using a single rapid reward for two one-way flights), by the time the second reservation is logged in there will be non-consecutive positions possibly by more than 5 people. So, the question is how does a couple who wants to sit together line up if they do not have consecutive numbers due to the Southwest policy of splitting up their rapid reward reservation. By the way, that is the situation we will be facing in a six hour flight in January from Islip to Las Vegas.
James Rea,
It is easy. There will be tall columns in the gate area that will be marked 1-5, 6-10, etc. You just stand next to the column that matches the number on your boarding pass. Within your group of five, you don't have to be in total numerical order.
Here's some more info: http://www.southwest.com/help/boardingschool/
Brian
I like these changes. One thing still irks me. I am 6'7" and get irritated when I see a small person going for the extra legroom in an exit row. If you can't create more legroom for everyone, at least give us "disadvantaged" folks first shot at the exit row. Further, I have seen some small elderly ladies there that couldn't handle the emergency exit if their life depended on it - and it would!
Congratulations SWA! It makes perfect sense and eliminates the nasty cattle call before the flight. I also appreciate your decision to board families between A and B - after all, 2/3 of the plane is still empty after group A, right? Plenty of seats still available.
Personally all this drivel about where you sit on an airplane is complete crap. All the seats get to the same place at the same time, as long as all the required parts of the plane stay where they are supposed to is about all one should care about IMHO. With one exception! Famlies with minor children need to be seated together. What happens if there is an emergency and you are seated 15 rows from your 7 year old. Are you willing to depend on a stranger to place an oxygen mask on your 8 year old before his/her own.
Preboarding can happen quite early and a family of 4 with 2 kids under 12, i can tell you, is not worried about Choice seating. I fly quite a bit and I've never been on a filght that had more that 10% or 15% of the total passengers preboarding with children.
Alternatively, i think you are going to get a tremendous amount of problems where mothers with youngsters that arrive a bit late are running around the plane trying to get someone to give up a seat so her and her child can sit together.
Guess Soutwest is now only catering to "Business" travelers.
Change the policy - i might come back - but my kids are too important
BOO to the new way~~
* oh great~~ re-arrange our schedule so we can camp at our computer instead of in line, trying to beat those trying to beat the system anyway.
* check in multiple people and possibly be divided getting on, which will encourage "saving the seat" for someone or several, if bigger families are divided up! (that's loss of seat choice freedom once on board.)
* tall people have LESS chance of the exit row for VERY necessary leg room.
* baby car seats and baby bags and stuff will be dragged down the aisle further into the plane. definitely safety first for them ~~ of course~~
gee~~ did someone drop the "thoughtful" card" when dealing out this new hand to EVERYONE?
we have flown swa for years and have companion status for myself, that's how much we've liked you guys. i think you had a good thing going~~
SO, was the wheel ACTUALLY broken? the only one this seems to appease is the squeeky, single, business traveler wheel....
1 for the bottom line~ 0 for the family
boo to the new way.
I do hope that persons flying together to a destination will be allowed to board together. If I am a low 'B' but my friend is an upper 'A', hopefully we can still board together to ensure we can sit together.
My favorite thing about Southwest over the years has been that it provides the opportunity for a more social experience. I often fly alone, and Southwest is the only airline that allowed me to carry the conversations I had at the gate with whoever I met onto the plane.
I've had great conversations over the years and hope that friends and even new acquaintances will be able to continue that great trend.
Great move- I was too worried about switching to an assigned seat system which I felt would have slowed everything down. Not having to line up anymore is very fair and so much less stressful.
Kudo's to you all
I miss you guys so much already, and this only increases my desire for you to start flying to Atlanta.
I moved down to Atlanta earlier this summer and have already had to fly Air Tran twice and it's not even close to the same. The employees don't have the same LUV that Southwest employees do and in general the experience just isn't the same.
The new policy is just one way SWA continues to further do everything they can to create the best possible experience for each and every customer. As a customer who used to 1) check in early and 2) sit on the floor to make sure I got the seat I wanted I can assure you I'm delighted about the new policy. I'm just bummed I won't get to use it much.
Please Please Please start flying to Atlanta - and congrats on the great new policy, good luck with implementation...
Thanks Brian, the Boarding School page makes it much clearer.
I must agree with the others and favor the pre-boarding plan for families. I do not have any young family members and pre-boarding allows me to see where all the young families are and get as far away as possible. I guess I will have to invest in noise-cancellation headphones.
I happen to like the policy of allowing children to board first. That way I can avoid sitting next to a child who might bellow for an entire flight, as just happened on my recent San diego to Chicago flight. How can I accomplish this very important (to me) goal, going forward?
Andrew says, "If this is true, I have officially flown with southwest for the last time."
Then GSC states, "Though I have been a loyal Southwest customer for many years, I will seek other carriers regardless of the price."
Then Dyana pipes in with, "This change puts Southwest right back in the pool as just another unsatisfying option."
And finally mnichols let's us know, "Change the policy - i might come back."
I figured it out Brian. No matter what SWA does, somebody is going to whine. Heck, you could announce tomorrow that all seats are now $15 each, 10 rows are being removed from every plane to create more legroom, and everybody will be served a complete seven course meal on all flights - and somebody would say, "That does it, I'm never flying Southwest again!"
I would be willing to bet at least 3/4 of the people who blog here with statements like "I'm never flying Southwest again" haven't ever flown SWA, or, at best, have less than five lifetime flights on WN.
I love Southwest and am thrilled that you kept the seating policy essentially the way it is...however, as a Mom (y'all knew we would write...and complain), I do think families traveling with children under 12 should get to board first. I saw a lot of folks write that boarding in between the A&B groups would suffice just fine for the family travelers, but what if you are boarding a connection? What if the majority of that plane is full and you have to find 2-3 folks to move in order to try to sit together? I think families - since they are buying tickets also - should get first priority only in order to sit together. Southwest will still be my carrier of choice, but I think they will hear from more than a few families on this one...
I am very unhappy that families with young children will no longer be allowed to board first. Please don't proceed with implementing this portion of your new procedures nationwide. I live in Nevada, have three daughters under age 4, and travel Southwest each time we visit my mother in North Carolina. We always use car seats on the flights for each girl. Even with pre-boarding, it takes my husband and I quite a while to get all three car seats buckled in. And even though I try, I might not always be in the "A" group. If we are not "A"s, our chances of finding 5 seats adjacent to each other just substantially decreased as well. I would say I won't fly Southwest with my family again, but I think I'll continue to do so in part so you can see how much time our not boarding first actually COSTS instead of saves. It may also spread my children throughout the aircraft to give more passengers the "toddler on a 5 hour flight" experience.
If this assigned seating is the best Southwest can come up with, heaven help us.
The thing is ...
All the people who are saying, "IÃ
Having flown SWA for the first time on Monday I am thrilled with the new system. I didn't like waiting to see who was going to be first to start the stampede. My wife flies SWA frequently for business and wasn't bothered by the system but I think that she will like it even better now.
I honestly will fly them less because as a business traveler I want space for my luggage. I don't always have access to a printer or sometimes a computer from the road and in the past I've spent too much time in line C on my return flights.
The reason I fly SWA is family pre-boarding. Southwest is the ONLY airline that guarantees my family will sit together. As others have mentioned it works the other way also. Before I had children I would be sure to sit far away from infants and small children.
What happens if I get on the plane and I cannot sit my family together? Do I decide which two strangers to sit my 5 year old between? Maybe I could put my 3 year old with dead-heading crew, along with her sippy cup and some Cherrios.
Or, and this will REALLY speed things up, I can spend 20 minutes negotiating seat moves with 5 different people. Of course I will have to permute the possibilities with the 3 other families doing the same thing. I assume Southwest will provide me a whiteboard, handheld computer and flak jacket to assist in this process.
I DO fly Southwest and I WILL be forced to fly it less if I cannot guarantee my kids won't **EVER** have to sit with strangers. That isn't a threat it is a fact (for anyone I assume).
On top of all this we still have to get on the plane, so where does the time savings come from???
DUMB IDEA Southwest.
Now where's that Mileage Plus card....
I'm all for the new boarding process. It bothers me to see people camped out under the different letters, plus, it always makes it seem like you need to hurry if you are going to fly Southwest just so you can get a spot in line.
What bothers me though is the article I read today that Southwest will stop letting those will children board first. How will this save time? I don't see it saving time. Now the delay will be dispersed rather than at the beginning.
Considering that you are still letting people choose their own seat, you are going to have a harder time explaining to two parents with a small child why they can't sit together because they didn't get the good boarding letter/number and only single seats are left. For fear that I will have to sit separately from my husband with a 1 year old will likely keep me from flying Southwest, which is a pity since the airport closer to me has Southwest. I'd rather drive the 45 minutes across town and have my assigned seat than be told we won't be able to sit together.
I fly out of San Antonio all the time and the new boarding procedures are FANTASTIC!!! For those of you with doubts, keep an open mind. Then "Try it, You'll Like It!!!
As a passenger on the first 737 to arrive from Boeing I am very of aware of SWAÃ
Unless you are 6 feet 6 inches or over, you have absolutely no idea how uncomfortable it is to fly. After over 30 years of Southwest in operation, there is STILL no provision to accomodate extra-tall people. Why not give us first priority to the exit rows that have more leg room? Additionally, the "new" system still requires me to either arrive hours before I need to for an early boarding pass, or have my finger on the computer key exactly 24 hours in advance. Even having an early boarding pass is no guarantee that I will still get an exit row seat. It is infuriating to spend hours to get an early boarding pass to then get on board only to find that all the exit seating is already taken by "normal" height people. For this reason, I only fly Southwest as a last resort. Flying Southwest is like going to a restaurant or a theater that doesn't take reservations, and upon arriving, finding out there are no seats available.
I only occassionally flew Southwest and tried to avoid it due to open seating. But this new arrangement sounds like a nice hybrid approach, and I commend you for trying something a little different and using your blog as a vehicle to listen to customer input. I'll be flying in October and hope this new rules apply to me during that trip -- I may be more of a Southwest fan after that point.
Andrew D and GSK (And Brian!),
As a traveler with a two year old and an 8 month old, let me give you my perspective on boarding a plane with children.
In our experience, itÃ
Hey Ralph,
You don't need a printer to check in online in advance. All you need is access to a computer or a PDA (for wireless checkin). Go ahead and check yourself in, even if you don't have a printer. Then, when you get to the airport, just go to a kiosk and reprint the boarding pass.
And Steve Dillinger, again, all we ask is that you try the new procedures before making a decision
Brian
I just had the chance to read all of the blogs, and my comments are not knee-jerk. I have flown Southwest a lot - ever since high school. However, as people who live 1,000 miles from their family, the only sane option is to fly when you have small children. It just concerns me that flying Southwest when I was childless showed me how thoughtless people were. Once at their seat, you almost need an act of God to get someone to be nice and even let you sit by your husband on your honeymoon. So thinking of that is why I hesitate to want to try a 2-hour flight to Nashville with my small child - let alone if I have another one. If people are willing to allow my baby to sit between them while my husband and I sit somewhere else, I will be all for it. But that will never happen.
I used to be one of those people who couldn't stand to sit anywhere around other children on a plane, actually, I still am one of those people. However, I have more compassion now for what it takes to travel with a child.
Yes, it is my choice to bring a child on an airplane - I should know better - but all people fly out of necessity or else we wouldn't do it.
Yes, I would be thinking of other people if I just drove the 20 hours it would take to get home, but how seldom are people on an airplane considerate of other people? You bring larger than allowed carry-ons that clog up the overhead bin, refuse to even have one single thing under your seat to give room for other people's things, take an arm rest that isn't yours, take up leg room that isn't yours - are you seeing a pattern here?
GREAT!
I've thought for a long time that people should be boarded in the order they check in. I've noticed each boarding pass as a number on it already so now the number actually means something.
For the people with small kids who are complaining that they don't get to board first: No longer will you be able to get the bulk head seats! It gives the rest of us a chance now.
(Speaking of kids: On my last flight on Southwest there were two old "bidies" who complained about everything. They even decided to pre-board, although they didn't follow th procedures. They knew I wanted the bulkhead seats for my girlfriend (she has a bad knee) but they went ahead and took them. However, no bad thing goes unpunished. Right behind a family with a toddler boarded. This 2 year old had the greatest set of lungs around! I noticed the biddies were covering their ears for most of the flight from SEA to OAK!)
Anyway, back to the subject of the new boarding procedure. Again, I say this is great.
For those who complain about having to sit at the computers to get an A boarding pass, don't forget that you can check in via cell phone and just print your boarding pass out at the airport.
For the long-legged people: Granted, I'm only 5'6" but for most people taller than that, there is still plenty of legroom. Southwest's seat pitch is 32 inches in most seats, more in the bulkhead and emergency exit rows. That's 1 to 2 inches more than most other airlines have in coach.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, SOUTHWEST!
The biggest complaint I see is that some folks are upset about the changing policy for family pre-boarding. I submit that a family does have the right to sit together, but does not necessarily have the right to be the first people on the plane. Seeing as they are guaranteed a boarding slot beginning with #61, I find it difficult to believe that finding 2 adjacent seats or 4-5 in "close proximity" will be too difficult. I would even argue that those with somewhat older kids should be accomodated whenever possible.
I'd ask all to consider whether family pre-board has been abused by some. I've seen the 3 yr. old with his 8 favorite uncles and aunts in the pre-board line. That never seemed fair to me. By the time my kids were 6 and 4, we tried to get an "A" and lined up like anyone else. And if we were "B", we got there darn early. Once we had a "C" on a connection when they were still quite small (but not pre-board age), and the gate attendant (and the other passengers in line) insisted that we go ahead. A little help from "friends" went a long ways. I believe SWA has crafted an excellent compromise.
To me, the new system sounds like an improvement, and I'm willing to try it. If flying isn't tiring enough, passengers don't need the added fun of having to sit on the floor for an hour and a half before a flight.
I do not believe that families should go first, as I feel that many people abuse that, however, I do think that families, or any group should have the option to check in together so at least they can be in the same order in line.
NO PRE-BOARDING FOR FAMILIES!!!!
I canÃ
I understand the tall folk's irritation at the short folks that end up in the Exit Row. But a lot of SW's flights are direct, which means they have through passengers, and as soon as the local passengers have deplaned, those through folks scramble to the front seats or the exit row. So saving the exit row seats for tall folks would not work. But I do feel for them.
Kudos to you SWA. I like the new plan a lot. One question though. Your website says "an adult" may board with a child 4 or under. I believe the website used to say "families with a child 4 and under". Will the GAs only allow one adult per child 4 and under or the whole family of the child? I personally would like it to only be one adult per child in case I am unable to secure an A group pass. As for charging for As in the future, I have no problem with it as long as the charge is nominal ($20 each or less). I would object to tying As to higher priced tickets (full fares) as that would shaft the Ding flyers, IMHO.
Christine,
Just give people a chance to be courteous. You can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar! When you board the plane and discover that there arenÃ
I fly SWA for one reason, price. Not boarding procedures, not LUV, not even Rapid Rewards (which is a nice perk). I for one loathe the current A, B, C system. I constantly make fun of the line squatters and prefer to be the last of the A's on the plane. No standing in line, but still enough quality seats available. The newly proposed system sounds a little better but it still creates the Window - Aisle Canyon which leaves the poor C's with squishing past Aislers to get to those despised middle seats. Not to mention the lack of overhead storage for C's. Face it, someone (or a lot of someones) has to board in the C group and they don't get any LUV. If my wife and I ever forget to check in online 23 hours & 59 minutes ahead of time (VERY rarely, but it happens) then we dread flying SWA because it means we either need to get to the airport annoyingly early to be at the front of the C's or face sitting apart with our carry-ons randomly placed on the plane. Actually, with the new TSA requirements, we just check everything now but you know what I mean. Granted, the baggage handlers just destroyed a newer piece of luggage but that is for another gripe...
We just had a baby and preboarded for our first time a month ago which we didn't hate. Not being on the plane first, no, not by any means, I would rather be the last one down the jetway, but preboarding does give you a little extra time to get situated and get the little one straightened out without feeling like you are in the way of everyone behind you. And btw, the bulkheads suck for flying with kids, no tray tables or storage under the seat in front of you. So I agree, leave those to the long legged freaks among us.
So for now anyway, SWA is where I'll stay. I would be lying though if I said I wasn't eyeing Virgin America or JetBlue, if they only went where I flew...
THANK YOU, Southwest for keeping an open seating policy!! I fly often for business and try to fly you (whenever possible) for pleasure. I'm glad you did not change (which would have probably led to my not flying you less) and am looking forward to learning the new system.
David -
No offense, but when I see a 5'6" guy get in the exit row in front of me, I'm ticked. If you think there is so much room in the regular seats, take them. It is a real pain for some of us.
This new boarding policy is very disappointing for all American families and they should respond by giving their business to another airline that appreciates families. Flying with young children would be very scary in this day and age if they weren't seated together. I would think that other companies will follow suit and switch to using another airline. You are not nuts about your customers, you are just plain nuts!!
I rather dislike your boarding procedure. When I board a flight I like to know that I will be able to sit with whoever I am traveling with. I prefer not to have the anxiety of worrying about getting seats and have to sit with strangers when I am traveling with people that I know.
I guess I will just have to check with other airlines before yours whem making my travel plans. Unless you have something absolutely out of the ordinary fare wise I will be traveling with another carrier.
I cannot believe that any passengers in my situation would be happy about your policy.
The problem is not with the kids its with the older crowd. These people are clearly not disabled yet they feel entitled to pre-board. You got half the boomer population out there feeling entitled to pre-board SW flights. What exactly qualifies as a disability to pre-board?
As a business customer flying weekly and flying multiple times a year with soon to be 3 children under the age of two I am very disappointed in your policy change. Check the free flights I have accumulated this year I use your services frequently. I would agree with other posts that have been made in reference to the question have your ever flown with a child? It has to be one of the least enjoyable experiences out there for all involved. It does make a difference when and where you board the plane and it should be at the begining. You already have to go through extra hoops to get a boarding pass not to mention the mountain of luggage that you have to haul through the airport. Why make it more difficult for all involved? I can guranatee that with my small army of children and other fliers following right on my heels that I will do nothing but clog any isle for a long amount of time. I applaud your other changes and your previous quick boarding times, but this is a mistake!!! Please re-think it!!
I will plead guilty to being a line camper. I am also a "clock watcher" meaning that I usually check in online as soon as humanly possible when once it less that 24 hours until my flight.
Now I REALLY wish that A&E hadn't canceled Airline. I would love to see some footage of people getting used to the new system!
We flew from San Antonio to Ontario, CA Sunday, September 16th. The new boarding procedure was already in place there and WE LOVE IT. I am one that always gets my boarding pass as soon as the time comes and we were 1 and 2 in line and were able to get our favorite seats without standing in line for an hour. Way to go Southwest!!!!!!!
Due to the family changes I will no longer fly southwest. I have been a loyal costumer with their credit card. With three children under the age of 6 I can not take the chance of sitting all together and trying to lug on the things on the plane plus the kids is stressful enough. I would rather pay for assigned seats. It is a shame that families are no longer seen as a priority.
I LOVE SOUTHWEST!!! I think that your new seating policy is great except for your new children policy. Brian in response to your reply...families can still board first if they have an A boarding pass...I have a daughter that is 16 months old and I am required to wait in line to show a brith certificate. I like many other families are not eligible for your electronic check in. Very rarely have I ever received an A boarding pass due to the fact that many people either check in online 24 hours in advance or are flying bye me as I wait in line to talk to someone in person. How does this policy help me or anyone else for that matter. The only thing that this is going to do is hold people up behind me as I lug a carseat, diaper bag, entertainment, food and anything else that I need to keep her entertained on a 3 hour flight. I urge you to reconsider your decision!!!
It sounds like a great idea. I have high hopes for it. I was sad to see that Southwest decided to stop pre-boarding for people with small children. We flew LAX-SLC last summer and what a relief it was to have the children situated next to us and have all our bags put away by the time everyone else came on. Those two flights were some of the best flights I ever experienced. We even got extra peanuts :D
I did see from the article that families will still be able to "preboard" between the A and B groups; I will just have to try and make sure that my family is as close to A as we can possibly get (though with our three bags, collapsible crib, two carseats, stroller, and two kids, we will never beat those sleek business folks with their one briefcase). Keep up the good work, Southwest, and fly safe.
It will be interesting to see what happens when folks without children start complaining that boarding is slower... not only is the new policy detrimental to families with young children, but everyone else boarding a flight! Not a good move on your part Southwest!
I am truly thrilled with the new boarding procedure...no more waiting in those awful A-B-C lines for 30 minutes before the plane even starts boarding. Finally, we get on the plane in the order in which we check in, but we still get to pick our seat on the plane. Perfect! Well done SWA!
My one complaint is the pre-boarding change. It sometimes seems that half the people on the plane are pre-boarding, regardless of whether or not they need to. So, I can understand how others get upset by the number of people that claim they need "extra time" getting on the plane. Southwest simply needs to enforce the pre-boarding rules. I flew often before and after kids. I do pre-board with my children, but not for the sake of getting a "good" seat. I have two 6-month old boys who travel to the gate with a stroller and 2 carseats because I cannot physically carry 2 babies to the gate. Let me tell you, it takes me a LOT of time to get from the gate to the plane seat with 2 babies. Breaking down strollers and carseats, carrying diaper bags, bottles and kids is not an easy task. Pre-boarding allows me some extra time to get all this done without being trampled by the line of people coming down the jetway and airplane aisle. Even with pre-boarding, I still find myself sometimes getting run over by the 'A' group and they certainly don't wait to let me get out of the way. Allowing those of us with an 'A' to board in normal order is out of the question. We would either be run over by the others behind us or we would be holding up the entire line of people. Just enforce the rules and only allow those who truly need extra time to board early.
I've got to say, I'm impressed at the consideration you've shown for your passengers. The airport gate "cattle call" was about the only reason I'd avoided Southwest. With this move I will give you another try and may become one of your regulars.
Keep up the good work!
As a Texan who has been flying Southwest for my entire life, I'm really curious to try out these new changes. I still miss those old plastic cards, you know.
However, since many of the comments on this blog and in news coverage focus on the family pre-boarding changes, I find it ironic and oddly patronizing to have the "Boarding School" font look childish. Most people enjoy reading large, clear fonts (please see the August 12, 2007 article in the New York Times), and find it difficult to read tilted scribbles. I'm glad you have humor incorporated into this presentation, but please, tell your design team to use fonts that are easier to appreciate. Thank you.
I use Rapid Rewards so frequently I've earned a Companion Pass for the past 2 years. I've never had a problem obtaining an "A" Boarding Pass the night before my flight. I am looking forward to seeing how the new system will work, but I must admit, I don't see how it keeps anyone from having to wait in lines, because you still must stay within the boarding area to HEAR the announcements, which are always difficult to hear, so I forsee people lining up at their posts regardless of what letter or number they have. And what if you Godforbid miss your call (ex: bathroom, snack line) who is going to let you cut in line?
I do vote for allowing anyone traveling with children under 5 to board first before the "A's".
I've been a Southwest flyer for quite sometime, in fact I fly them as often as feasible with my travel schedule. I have to say that this new plan has me concerned. Though I make an honest effort to check in as soon as I can to get an A boarding pass, there are times when my plans change and require me to cancel my checkin so I can book a different flight where I could end up with a B or C boarding pass. I have always enjoyed the fact that even if I have a B, there was nothing stopping me from being as close to the front of the line as I could place myself and get on while there is still a good selection of seats.
While this new plan will avoid the crowd at the gate, it takes away some of the convenience that some of us have had while flying Southwest. Personally, if this is going to be the case, you might as well just go to an assigned seat model.
Happy to hear about your new seating arrangement. I hated sitting on the flour for one and a half hours even when we had an A. the new arrangement
makes much more sense. It pays to listen to the customers. Thanks.
Don & Jan
Brian Lusk & Everyone-
Let me respectfully offer some advice.
You have a 'communication' disaster brewing.
The headline re: family board is:
"Southwest gets rid of family pre-boarding."
NOT
"Southwest move family boarding after the first 60 passengers where those passengers will most likely have no problem sitting together"
That leaves most people to picture boarding at the end of the C group with a 2 year old. IE- no more SWA.
Your customers with little ones flat out WONT "try that out to see if they like it." The will rightfully conclude that is a silly risk to take.
Your BIG problem is "the real story" is too complicated. The story that is spreading virally, in the mommy-n-me classes, at work and in the park, is the headline "Southwest ends family preboard."
For the .0001% that read the blog and or find a newspaper that gave the whole story, they might try it
A significant portion of the other .9999% won't give you the chance (because they only know the headline)
Is it really worth it??
Steve
Sky King JR- GREAT post.
((and I STILL don't see how this possibly speeds things up))
Good idea to let the passengers get on in the order of boarding passes. The camping out for seats has been a real drag. Horrible idea not to let families with children board first. You may wind up reconsidering that.
gary:
you don't get it!! it's simple, but it's not about preassigned seating.
1. take care of your mfu's --------if it's about meritocracy vs aristocracy, then it's about what you do for your "most frequent users" ( your "mfu's"). for those of us who fly you a lot--and i mean a lot, i.e. companion passes, literally hundreds and hundreds of rapid rewards credits, etc. these folks are your economic backbone, and it's about what you do to keep and grow their flying usage and that of their families.
you need to make every one of your mfu's experiences in every airport as easy and quick and bearable as it can possibly be.
you need to give your mfu's priority check-in/kisok lines.
you need to get your mfu's priority through the airport security lines where every other airline's "first class" passengers are getting priority, and then,
whatever your seating plan is, you need to take care of your mfu's by putting them automatically in your top boarding group (or give them an "AA" boarding group --sorry wrong air line-- or an "I M Certifiably Nuts" group of their own) whenever they check in ---even if it's 10 mins before boarding time.
you also need to seek out input from your mfu's---not just every vocal idiot who decides to try and criticize your airline once a year and threatens to move $1.98 in business at the drop of a hat. your mfu's can and will tell you candidly what is right and what is wrong about swa from the customer perspective.
2. there is a big issue about pre-boarding, but it's not about families with young kids.
our kids are grown adults, yet we recognize all of the very important reasons voiced in the earlier blogs about why families w/ kids need to pre-board. those reasons are all valid, and they should pre-board.
the problem w/ pre-boards is all the non-sense that we and your other mfu's see time and again when blatant abusers with tennis racquets, and mtn climbing gear in hand jaunt merrily onto the plane ahead of everyone else with a bogus pink or yellow piece of paper granting them priority for some feigned disability. (we also experience folks with genuine disabilities who refuse the privilege of pre-boarding.)
the resentment of those experiences is exceeded only by those where an apparently genuinely frail elder or disabled person is pre-boarded while accompanied onto a flight by a healthy entourage that's larger in number that that which accompanies michael jackson or your average rock band or presidential candidate.
let the families pre-board ---but stop the abuses. they're incredible in number, and your/our swa attendants are too polite and never challenge them.
gary: let's go for it! stretch the envelope! you have great employees (we really luv their collective sense of humor) and great market appeal. AND you obviously have GREAT Customer Loyalty........but we are smart and we are fickle..................SWA......like every other business today.....has to earn that loyalty everyday. Thanks for listening/reading.... j
I fly Southwest several times per month, and I think the new seating process is a great enhancement. If it is important to you to get your choice of boarding groups check in early. I have flown United and have found myself without overhead space because all of their 1K fliers are boarded first, and the isle folks board last no space is left. Way to go Southwest.
I must admit that I've been skeptical about hearing this coming. A couple of concerns that I'd like to see addressed:
PlS INF -- If I call and add a lap child to my ticket, I can't then do online check-in. Now, I realize that I can still get on board before the B's and C's... but you need to address the PLS Inf issue as it does put those of us who are willing to play by the rules at a slight disadvantage.
Sequential numbering? Is this really a good idea? From the looks of the SAT boarding area and "boarding school" videos... I see that you have zones for each in line. I for one don't really care... to me an A was an A. Now though if you have groups of 5 (let's say 30-35) and I just happen to be the first one standing in the 30-35 section with #34, I can see someone who has a #31 insisting to get in front of me so we are in numerical order. Does it really matter? No.. but it is a chance for a confrontation in the gate area. Please don't give your passengers that much credit to see reason. I've seen lots of arguments in Southwest lines as it is. At the risk of sounding like your competition, you would have been better with zones (e.g. A1, A2, A3) instead of A1-5, A6-10, etc.
I'm staying open minded. At least you still have some sort of consideration for families. There is another major carrier (the one that hubs in ATL and SLC) that did away with pre-boards all together. Trust me... it can be worse.
Now... if only you'd do something to better control the other pre-boards. 20 PAX needing assistance to board the plane .... but not needing any assistance on the other end... hmm... I know that one is going to be tougher. Thanks for at least trying to be innovative at solving the problem. Heaven knows the other carriers have a big problem with actually trying to change their processes. At least you are taking the risk.
Last Friday i flew from Houston to Tulsa. I thought a better system would be to assign numbers to the A,B,C designations. I didn' t know SW was thinking about this. Glad to see something better than the cattle call i experienced.
I think a better way would be to assign a number based on when you purchased your ticket instead of when you picked up your boarding pass. If you book your ticket early you should get up in the front of the line.
Good start, now improve it with my suggestion.
One other note...
This policy might eliminate "some" of the lining up. But make no mistake... even with assigned seating, the vultures hover in the gate area of the other carriers (no matter how many announcements are made about it). The issue is really more than just the seat preference. Let's face it... it is about space. Overhead space to be more precise. I travel with two kids and we try to limit our carry ons to the bare minimum. Yes... we check our bags!! Mid boarding (even in a B group), you can find yourself with 4 tickets passengers and there won't even be room above your seat to slide in the diaper bag. New Preboard slot puts us after the thru PAX and after all the A's. With all the roller bags, garment bags, shopping bags, etc... I see our odds dwindling and that we will have to stuff our items beneath the seat.
Getting on board is more than just getting the seat up front, it is part of the competition for overhead space. Personally, I have a seat down below and would like to think that my ticket gains me a little real estate in the overhead bin. But, let's face it.. that isn't always the reality and being first on the plane is the only way to ensure that to be the case.
How about a some sort of incentive to the baggage policy? Reward those who check bags for instance. You'll find that turn around times will imiprove if people who can barely walk aren't also dragging 50 lb bags down the aisle. Don't get me wrong... I'm probably one of the few who realizes how generous Southwest is with their current baggage policy (3 50 lb checked bags per customer?!?!?). However, that does not appear to be enough to convince some people.
I am glad that Southwest is going to assign the numbers to passengers. However, I am bothered by the lack of family friendly service during boarding at Southwest. Our family enjoys flying the airline because the attendants are so nice and the flights are usually on time. But now they say they will not let families with small children board early. My main concern with that is that we always buy a seat for our 1 year old and install her car seat in it. It takes the entire time people are boarding for us to install that seat properly and get buckled in. If we are not allowed to get on first, the whole plane will be waiting on us to get finished before we can taxi out for take off. Maybe it wasn't the right decision.
I have been avoiding Southwest in the last couple years because of the "open seating" system. Judging by this blog, many people like it, but I still fail to understand in what way being able to pick your own seat after boarding - and after jumping through a lot of hoops if you are to have any choice at all - is superior to being able to choose your own seat at the time of booking, like many other airlines let me do.
The new system sounds like an improvement, so I'm going to give it a try - it's a pity not to have SW as an option, you do offer convenient flights between Chicago and several cities I frequently have to visit. On the other hand, having pre-assigned seating would be a much bigger improvement in my opinion, so I expect I'll still fly other airlines whenever they offer comparable schedule and price.
Way to go SWA!
I think once the families try out the new boarding process, they'll see its not as bad as they're painting it to be. I'm tall, so I admit to being a line camper for the exit row, but I think these new changes will give me just as good of a chance.
As a frequent SWA traveler for both leisure and business, I applaud your decision. I look forward to seeing the changes at BNA and elsewhere!
I am the mom of a just-turned-2 year old and, since her birth, have flown Southwest about once a month to visit family in Phoenix (most of the time, it's just me and my daughter, without my husband). I was utterly disgusted and angry when a gate agent told me last Sunday (as I checked in for my return flight home after my latest trip to Phoenix) that I could pre-board this time, but that Southwest would no longer be allowing pre-boarding for families after October 1st. What???? You've GOT to be kidding, I thought. I am so disappointed to learn that this is no joke. Clearly, the people who decided on this new policy do not have young children. Flying solo with a small child is probably one of the hardest things I have done as a mother. As hard as it is, I have made the effort to fly regularly with my daughter since her birth, and Southwest has been the link that has allowed my daughter to get to know her grandfather well over the last 2 years, despite the fact that he's over 1,000 miles away. It's the only airline that offers direct service between my city and Phoenix, where my dad lives, so I'm not sure I can say I will never fly the airline again (though I would LOVE to be able to say that). However, I now feel complete disgust about Southwest and am absolutely dreading flying the airline again. And please, Southwest, don't dismiss my feelings as the irrational knee-jerk reaction of someone who "just doesn't understand" how the new system will work. Not only do I feel tremendous ill-will toward the airline for being so blatantly anti-family/anti-kids and for making what is already a daunting and exhausting experience that much more stressful, but I am dreading the reaction I will get from whatever lucky passenger I am forced to choose to sit next to when I finally get to board the plane. Do you know how many times I have had a whole row to myself because no one wants to sit next to a mom and her little one? I don't really blame them - I was the same way before I had kids. To put families in the position of having to pick someone to sit next to just isn't fair to anyone (as some of the other posters have already noted). I am sure I will get plenty of disgusted eye-rolls and sneers when some "A" group passenger who is happily settled in to what they thought was going to be a "choice" seat finds out my daughter and I are going to be sitting next to them. This is only ONE of my many concerns. Also, I will likely no longer be able to chose a seat near the very front or back of the plane, where a flight attendant will be close by if I need some extra water for a bottle, an extra napkin or some snacks. I expect to feel stressed about trying to get myself and my daughter and her stroller, blankie and carry- on settled in while the plane is already half-full. I probably will have a much harder time getting a window seat, which on some flights has been the only thing that has kept my daughter entertained (despite that I come armed with a backpack full of toys each time I fly). I won't even allow myself at this point to consider the possibility of ever flying solo on Southwest with 2 children after my second child is born in January. Please, Southwest, don't patronize me by telling me to "just give it a try." YOU just give flying with a 2 year old a try. Again, I am just totally disgusted, disappointed, and angry, and the good feelings I had about Southwest have been done away with in one fell swoop. Oh, but, I forgot - you don't care about my business or opinions anyway, because I'm not a business traveler. SHAME ON YOU SOUTHWEST!
I've read comments elsewhere that were very positive about the boarding procedures at SAT. I only wish that I could get to experience this when my wife and I travel to MCO next month.
As for the change in family boardings, I understand BOTH sides of the argument. Allowing families with children in strollers to board early guarantees that they sit together and have enough time to remove the children (and allows those who want to sit as far away as possible from the families with small children to do so). On the other hand, if catching a connecting flight, it's nice to grab the bulkhead seats up front.
As for the person who asks "what if we're split between numbered groups?", well, you have two options. 1. The person with the lower number boards first and saves seats. 2. The person with the lower number stands with the person with the higher number.
As for tall people, talk to the gate agent. I once saw a very tall (7' 6") man be allowed to board early so that he could get the long legroom seat.
All this talk about numbers makes me wonder what was done with the old plastic boarding cards. I'd have loved to have kept one (especially one of the California shaped ones) as a souvenir.
I don't understand how it will save any time boarding the families with children between the A's and B's. There will still be the same number of adults and children and same amount of paraphernalia to get situated whether they go before the others or in the middle of them. I have traveled with small children many times and it is a demanding, difficult dance that takes all the skill, poise, courage, and patience you can muster. And even then there is no way to anticipate what is going to work and what isn't. So by making things more difficult for them are you attempting to reduce the number of families that fly on your airline? Because saying that it would actually "save time" really doesn't fly. All it will do is further frustrate parents and children, and in kind those who have to sit around them. Honestly. I would like to know what your real motive is?
HELP! I actually feel panicked after reading about your new policies. I fly with 3 children frequently from Las Vegas to Oakland and your new policy makes my airport experience even more stressful. We cannot print a boarding pass for a lap child & have to go through the ticket line. We try to arrive at the airport 2 hours before our flight, but it takes us a lot longer to get through security with our kids & stroller and actually walk to the gate. I can see how it looks unfair to other people that we don't stand in line as long as they do, but our kids really can't handle standing/sitting around for an hour in a confined space. Once we get through security, we actually try NOT to get to the gate more than half an hour before boarding. Pre-boarding has been a life-saver! Are you trying to tell me that if ticketing gives us a "C" boarding pass, we will actually have to board the plane last and place our toddlers in random seats throughout the cabin? I have always loved Southwest because they treated our children better than other airlines (our kids are very well behaved on a plane, by the way). I actually feel attacked by your new policy & we have been very good customers!
I cant wait to give it a try... Come on people, lets not knock it until we try it... I have to say though, I'll be disappointed about not having the "pre flight" entertainment of watching the A line campers and the pushing in the A line.
The best boarding experience I've ever had was with Frontier, unfortunately you can't fly them unless your going to Denver. They assign the seating, but load from back to front, by row. Nobody lines up, they just call, 26, 25, 24. etc. But in any case, this new boarding policy is a really great compromise. its a great compromise for everyone...
With the kid situation... Anyone who doesn't travel with kids, i can tell you pretty much resents the family preboarding. it always seems like, just because someone has a 4 year old, it gives the family of 10 the right to cut the line... I actually think that the boarding after A, but before B is also a great compromise for those of us who don't travel with children.
SWA is always #1 in my book. I don't care if they make us walk backwards down the jetway - just flying with smart, trained, friendly and intelligent employees is enough for me to deal with any boarding process. my only real complaint is not being able to travel with my dogs. I say remove the children, and let us bring our dogs. My dogs are probably better behaved than your children :) Just kidding, lighten up...
Yes, we do fly southwest quite often, we'll wait and see....often the announcement of a new plan and the reality of the expereince of that plan differ quite a bit.
Are you kidding no pre-boarding for families. I can imagine people have taken advantage of it, but what a joke. I call on all families to croud the aisles, take your time breaking down the strollers, leave your supplies in the aisles, chase your kids between seats, and don't worry about them crying. Let them all feel the pain they will reconsider.
Your point is clear you do not want families traveling your airlines. Why else would you make the change? We will take our business elsewhere!!!!
I think your new plan regarding families with young children is ridiculous. It seems to me that anyone with gray hair gets to pre board but now those with young kids may not be able to sit with their children. So, potentially my 2 1/2 year old is sitting by some strangers? Is this a safe situation? This plan was obviously hatched by a man.
So, I can't preboard with my family now? O.k. Then how about this. If there are 2 seats together, my two under 4 can sit together and your flight attendants can look after them while I take a much needed rest.
Southwest will have to reconsider the new policy of not letting families with small children to preboard. We have always bought a seat for our baby and we use a car seat which is encouraged by the airline.
There is no way we would be able to use a car seat under this new seating policy. It is difficult enough to carry and install the seat with many people coming up behind you and that is when there is a small window of time allowed during the preboard process. We also have two older children (all under age 7) and I can say it is definitely a challenge even with preboarding with all three kids. It will be impossible without preboarding.
We are Rapid Rewards and Companion Pass members and if this policy is not reversed...we will not longer be able to fly Southwest. It will be just too miserable because most people are not happy to see smaller children near them on a plane in the first place. BTW...my children are so quiet on airplanes and after our flights many passengers comment on how good they were on the plane once the flight is over.
Sorry Southwest that you have made a very unfriendly policy for families.
We will now fly Continental unless this policy is reversed.
Glad to see Southwest is staying Southwest.
Yes, it can get a bit dicey being in the C group on a full flight. But, in my experience, Southwest passengers do a better job of sorting themselves out than the reservations computers of the competition.
I even suspect that some of the angry parents will discover that they still end up sitting in Rows 1 & 2 (with the facing seats), even if they board last, because the lack of legroom in those seats favors families with small children.
Keep up the good work. Luv Southwest--as a passenger and a stockholder!
Although we were terribly upset seeing you have this so called "gay travel" section, we are glad to see you will continue the open seating. Assigning numbers sounds great! I am planning a trip in Nov. though to travel with my 4 kids by myself and am a bit nervous about not being able to board first. I was really counting on this and this is why we chose Southwest over the other carriers, so all those flying with us will just have to have lots of patience.
Steve Dillinger: Hey are you a R.R. man? I am flying alone with my four kids ranging from 2-10 this fall and am only using southwest because of the free flights my hubby gets here in Texas from dead-heading. ;) This new system has me kind of freaked out. I wonder what we'll do!
If the families are heck bent on "staying together" and are up in arms over potential A-/B+ boarding status, perhaps you could accommodate them and keep the rest of us happy.
I propose that any family who wants to pre-board MUST go to the very back of the plane, and MUST cluster themselves so that no seats are wasted. Also, ZERO use of ANY overhead bin excepting those immediately above the families. One benefit is closer access to the lavatory.
If this is truly about being together, a family would take this deal in a heartbeat. I can't imagine that the folks who have objected to the family pre-boarding would be anything but pleased.
I have always thought of Southwest as a business air carrier. I have used Southwest extensively to meet my customers for the past 15 years. I think this is a "Luvly" solution.
Just a reminder that Customers traveling with an Infant or Child Fare CAN check in online, as long as the passenger is age verified in advance. Here is the link on how to do that:
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/children.html#age
Brian
My wife and I have flown Southwest out of PHL and PVD numerous times and one of our gripes with the ABC system was the abuse of passengers upgrading their boarding pass assignments. If we're a "B", we routinely see "C" boarding passes that the boarding agent had already collected at the podium. If we're an "A", passengers holding "B"s had already been permitted to board.
The airline's policy should include an announcement at the gate that passengers must line up in their assigned class, will not be permitted to board, and will be escorted to the back of their assigned class if they attempt to board before their assigned class is called.
For their part, boarding agents should enforce the ABC system, and not allow passengers to board ahead of their assigned class.
Mr. Kelly- I commend you and the entire Southwest team for the continued effort to be the most reliable and affordable airline out there. BWI is my home airport which means Southwest is my airline of choice. Over the years I have logged thousands of miles. The seating change is a perfect time to address a negative situation I've incurred on 2 of my hundreds of flights.
On two occassions I was holding an "A " boarding card but arrived at the gate after the "A" group boarded and was instructed to wait until all of the passengers boarded -in other words I was sent to the back of the line. I don't have a problem with that but - some airports let me board immediately, others made me wait. (Of course the obvious answer is to be on time....;~). With the addition of a # to the boarding pass you may find people will not be at the gate in as timely a manner as they might otherwise.
This is a perfect time to add Southwest's policy on the boarding pass, on a sign above the gate or, maybe a pop-up box on the web check-in.
Many thanks and keep up the great work.
Last year, I traveled on United Airlines with my 3 and 1 year old. I asked the flight attendant if I could board early since I had 2 carseats to install on the airplane, towing 2 diaper bags and a stroller, all by myself. I was denied preboarding and told that travelling with young children was "an inconvenience not a disability". Right then, I vowed to fly Southwest every single chance I could, even if I had to pay more so I could preboard with my young children. All the families with young children tended to sit in the front of the plane, alleviating the need to walk multiple rows, towing unGodly amounts of "stuff", to find a seat together . We unknowingly formed a group, a support system to lean on when inevitably, a baby would scream from the pressure in her ears. I'm extremely disappointed with Southwest on your change of policy. So tell me, when I'm in group B and walking down the length of your plane with 2 car seats and mistakenly smack someone in the head with one of them, who are they going to sue, you or me? And what will the rest of your passengers think when the screaming babies are now all over the plane and not just in the front? Southwest, you need to rethink this policy change, FAST!
thank you southwest
I heard you are no longer letting people with children on first. I would love to thank you for finally convincing me to never fly with you again. You have to know that if I have 2 small children that I will need extra time in the aisle to not only get myself situated but two other, meaning I will need 3 times the amount of time. Instead of giving me this time you are going to make me endure snide comments from other passengers and crew members that have no idea what it is like to travel with children because if they did they would open their mouths and give you grief for taking a little extra time. I will now be giving my hard earned money to an airline who better understands people like me and the challenges of traveling with children. Someone who is interested in creating a better travel experience for me.
Brian -- I appreciate the post about the age verification (and believe that might be as the result of my PLS INF qestion). However, I am curious to know how age verification resolves the PLS INF issue? When I call to add my infant son, Customer Service never asks for his name or acct#. Rather, they just note my PNR and tell me that I have to check in at the airport. It would be nice to see some way to have this age verification done in person at the airport the first time so I don't have to go through all the hassle of mailing in documentation -- seems kind of antiquated for an airline that uses technology to solve a lot of their problems.
With all the concerns from families being posted in the comments section, it would be nice to see Southwest be a little more vocal about these type of family policies and perhaps make them a little more visible (or publicize them better) -- in other words... let's at least see a blog article -- soon!
This change of preboard policy is not being handled very well. I don't think that you folks are doing a great job of communicating it. I'm reading a lot of the comments here and can feel for a lot of these people because I too had the same panicked reaction to it. Since I read about the SAT experiment, I have had more time to absorb it and figure out how it would work.
Honestly, Southwest moving only the family preboard at this time (especially when you haven't fully impelemented the new boarding process) seems to take a swipe at the fact that the family preboard has been a big problem for WN. Let's face it... a lot of the A boarding pass issues is because people want to choose their seat (which invariably is at the front of the plane!). I'm ok with the idea of allowing families to still preboard first and require us all to sit beyond row 15. This can be handled simply by having the exit row Flight Attendant wave people to the back. When we preboard we do that so that we can respect our fellow passengers and help Southwest by staying out of the way while the A group comes on board.
You need to get in front of this problem and be more visible. Hopefully we see Colleen or Gary on the Today Show soon. Don't let this turn into another "mini skirt" debacle.
My wife and I are frequent southwest flyers as our son lives in Houston. Really hate to see you drop the preboarding for little ones since we babysit and my wife is usually the one who flys by herself to pick up or return a baby. It is really, really helpful to be able to get the "stuff" and the baby settled before the onslaught of everyone else boards the plane. We have used the direct Continental flight and it was nice not to worry about finding a seat but we just preferred your larger planes. Surely hope this can be reconsidered.
John
This change in policy does not address the problem that those with computers get groups A and B, those without, will always be last on the plane. The worst discrimination is that those with lap children, who are unable to check in online because of the lap child, will never get in group A. I've been a loyal customer of southwest for 20 years. I am rethinking that loyalty. Even Delta let me preboard with my infant!
WoW. When Brian showed up for work this morning I bet he wasn't expecting this.
We boarded many times at the beginning of old B after my youngest turned 4. We ALWAYS got seats together. We ALWAYS checked luggage so as not to carry too much on. And we ALWAYS got situated long before the plane needed to push back.
Guess you can't make everyone happy. I echo the above comments in saying that pre-board had gotten out of hand. Keep up the good work SWA!
JJG--I am enjoying reading the feedback to Gary's post, and I know that he and Colleen are reading the comments.
Mike--The age verification does only apply to ticketed Customers, but I did want to mention that so everyone could be aware. Thanks for the blog suggestion, and it is a great idea. I am checking with a couple of Leaders about age verification for lap children. As to being out front with this issue, we did hold a press conference with Gary yesterday, and all media (including networks) were invited. I'll let you know when I hear something on lap children.
Brian
I am very concerned about the lack of family pre-boarding. I can somewhat understand if the children are older, but I certainly don't want to risk getting separated from my 1 year old! If we have to wait to have people shift seats, that's just going to take up more time in the boarding process.
Also, my daughter sits in a car seat when we fly; and she will do so until she's big enough to sit comfortably in a regular seat. We were told the car seat has to go in a window seat because there's no way to get past it to the aisle. There's no problem with that if you pre-board. But if we're stuck going after the A group, there's no way a window seat will be available. I can imagine some very angry passengers if we're forced to do regular boarding with a car seat....
Yes, I do try to check in early. It's usually not a problem when we're leaving home, but we're rarely anywhere with computer access for the flight home. Contrary to what the SWA rep said when I called, there are not computers at all hotels. Most hotels have Internet access, but that doesn't help if you don't have a computer!!! She also told me that most libraries have Internet access and computers. Also, not true (I live in a town where none of the surrounding libraries even have dial-up, much less a computer). Besides, I'm certainly not going to change my plans to find a library when we're on vacation or visiting family.
At a minimum, I think SWA should compromise to allow those using car seats to pre-board. Otherwise, there are going to be some very angry passengers; and the whole seating process will be held up. And I also think SWA should be able to guarantee that parents won't get separated from small children.
I've been a loyal SWA customer for years. However, I will most likely be using another airline unless the new boarding policy changes. BTW, I don't have a problem with the boarding policy in general. When I'm flying by myself, I think it works very well--it's just the complete lack of family pre-boarding that is a concern. I used to be one of those people who hated the family pre-boarding...until our baby came!
Thanks for listening!
[...] don’t care enough anyway. If this explanation didn’t work for you, try this link or the Southwest blog post, both of which give you other ways to understand what they’re doing. So what do I think? I [...]
Brian,
Thanks for the follow up. The problem is that your press conference was dilluted for the evening news. Here in Arizona, many of the local stations simply announced the change effective 10/2.. but did not mention the new boading pass concept or give the story any depth. Your message was abbreviated and honestly it didn't do much to help clarify things. Southwest.com has the Boarding School which is novel. However, the fact that this change affects a significant population of your passengers, I think that more details should be available to quell a lot of concerns. I, for one, would like to hear some background on how the SAT tests were conducted. I still question whether this is smart for Southwest to be implementing so close to the holiday rush. It would seem more prudent to let these changes digest over time (early 2008 or even over the long summer season). I'm happy that I won't be flying at all this holiday so I won't have to feel your pain.
I know that doing the talk show circuit may not be the most practical idea. I think though that having the Company put more information on their web site and keeping the topic alive here on the blog would go a long way to helping us understand the changes.
Like I said, this has been in the rumor mill for a while. I hope that Southwest keeps an open mind... and I'm promising to do the same. Thanks.
Brian,
As someone who flies out of MCO all the time, I have experienced tons of preboard children, I have to question the policy of boarding those children after the "A" group. I'm guilty of being one those first in line to get the exit aisle seat, but I also want to see where the children are at, plus parents do need that extra time. It's not the pre-board children that abuse the system. Enforce only parents with the kids and tightened up what constitutes a pre board adult. Also, I really think the boarding will slow down after the A group while the parents get there children buckled into there seats, stowing their bags, etc. While the flights out of and into Orlando are not the norm for children, the situations I have experienced involving children boarding, tells me that this new policy with boarding children needs to be looked at. The other part is quite fair.. Ask you customer Ops people in MCO their thoughts.
I am a Rapid Rewards member and have flown SWA many times. I have not experienced this new boarding process. I thank SWA for thinking of us (the customers) in adjusting this process. I also think it is something that will help everyone, and benefit all customers. I am going to keep trusting SWA as they are the ones who are conducting the thorough research to help keep us comfortable. They don't have to listen to us or spend time and money to cater to our needs and wants, but they are. It's funny how we like to pick and pry this new process apart of what we like and don't like without actually being a part of the experiment. As for me, I am going to let the professionals of the business continue their "real-life" customer experiments and trust in them that they can make a decision that will better our experience at the gate.
Brian,
Again, though, the rule you mentioned only applies to children who have their own seat, not those who sit in your lap. Your rules say:
# One child over 14 days and under two (2) years of age, not occupying a seat, may be carried free when traveling with an adult (12 yrs of age or older). Online checkin is not available if the infant is not occupying a seat.
# Affordable Infant Fares are also available that enable a Customer to reserve a seat for an infant and use his/her FAA approved car seat. Online checkin is available if the infant is traveling on an Infant Fare and is age verified.
I have yet to book a flight with you where your infant fares are affordable. In fact, they have been the same price as an adult. When we are paying $300 for our child to fly, it is simpler to take Continental out of Houston because chances are it is the same price, and we don't have to take extra time trolling the rows for a seat. That is why no matter how you do it, it is not going to save time when people are having to split up and look for seats.
I have always thought that if you want to be first on the plane, you should go all the way to the back of the plane and sit down. Let your Rapid Rewards people who fly all the time get coveted seats in rows 2 to 8. Give them a paper with their boarding pass that says so. Let the taller folks ask for exit rows - give them a piece of paper or something to show the flight attendant, so that person will at least assist them in getting a seat in the exit row.
I also think it would help if everyone would calm down about sitting in the middle. You get the two middle armrests any way, and if you haven't been, then middle seat sitters around the country need to take back the armrest!
I have not read through all the comments yet, but have to agree with most people about the preboarding changes for those traveling with children. We flew with our 5 month old daughter for the first time two weeks ago and were very thankful for preboarding. As it was, when we preboarded for our flights, there was no delay between the preboarding group and the A group. The A group was fast on our heels down the jet way and before we even set foot on the plane at least 10 A group passengers were already seated. This made it very difficult for us to try and carry a car seat, an infant, diaper bag, and our carry on luggage to the back of the plane, all without hitting someone in the head who was already seated. Now, trying to do all this with 60 people seated on the plane, not just 10, will not be a pleasant experience for anyone on board. Southwest would be very wise to reconsider the preboarding changes for families traveling with infants who must check-in at the counter.
Christine in HOU and Mike in AZ,
I did check with Teresa Laraba, our Vice President of Ground Operations, and age verification isn't in place for a lap child at present. According to Teresa, we are working on a technical solution to allow this, but she is honest in saying that we don't know when it will be ready. However, we are looking for a way to allow online checkin for lap children.
It is also true that many of our fares are lower than the Infant Fare. The Infant Fare is a walkup type fare with no restrictions other than the age requirement. It is a discount off of our full fare unrestricted ticket. Customers with infants aren't required to purchase this fare--if they qualify for our discounted fares, the infant also qualifies.
Mike, the tests in San Antonio spanned a month period, and unlike the two San Diego test periods the year before, every flight in the San Antonio Station was involved. If you want more information about the tests, click on Susie's post that Gary mentions in this post. Incidentally, when we went back to San Diego last year for the second time so that we could test open seating boarding methods, I understand that the family boarding procedures were also tested there.
Brian
Thank you SWA! I'm loving the changes.
I'm claustrophobic, and must have an aisle seat. Thus I've always had to camp out early to get a seat. I'm so thrilled that I don't