I LOVE THIS NEW BOARDING PROCEDURE, especially no more preboarding for families. I'm tired of familes using their children as an excuse to get the choice seats on an airplane. If it takes so long to get children situated, and you need to get on the plane first, I'm fine with that -- as long as you board from the back of the plane forward!! Now how many of you people with kids are willing to do that? Since you claim you need extra time to get situated (and you need the same amount of time whether you board first or between the As and Bs), by boarding from the back of the plane forward you aren't holding up anybody.

Sadly, no more Southwest for this family. With a family of 5 with 3 children under 7..do you expect the kids to sit scattered throughout an airplane? If the choice is between no preboard for families or assigned seats, assigned seats it is. This is definately a NON FAMILY friendly move!

I really really like the idea of boarding in numerical order: a home run. And a great idea is that I heard is that "parents" with kids will board AFTER the first group has boarded: a master stroke. And even better idea would be to provide at least one adults only (18+ age) flight each day: that would be a big incentive for your business travelers.

YAY! No more pre-boarding for families! No more irresponsible parents with they're screaming children getting special privileges. I LUV you Southwest.

All of you parents who are crying just like your children do during a flight, go ahead and fly another airline. Hey, I know, you can use the hefty tax breaks that your family nets you to pay for those expensive flights! Have fun!

Nice "Bill". You have obviously never procreated and now we all know why. Or maybe you just left the responsibility of child rearing to the person who had enough patience and compassion to handle energetic young children.

As someone who understands that taking a young child on a trip is inherently difficult, I will no longer fly SWA until they reverse this lapse of judgment.

I think this is a really great idea. Its something that Southwest is known for and should be continued in this new and improved way.

What I really don't like is the fact that on Oct 2nd, you will not be letting people with young children board first. People that fly Southwest know to expect this and now you will undoubtably lose many "family" customers because of this. Your (not so) low fares will not help this. I know, I have a family, and this is disheartening.

Great idea, SW. I'm also pleased at how you did your homework first. Here's a manual trackback:
http://www.allbusiness.com/marketing-advertising/relationship-marketing/...

Hooray on your new boarding policies -- especially the change to family pre-boarding. You've come up with a fair alternative for the families and now, I won't be so very irritated watching 6-10 adults boarding before the A group because they are all traveling with a single 4-year old.Keep up the good work

As a RR member and loyal customer since 4/03, I am glad open seating will remain. I understand the concerns that families have with the new policies, however I suggest giving it a try before vowing "never to fly SWA again". SWA is the best airline in the skies and on the ground (dress policy notwithstanding :) ). Keep spreading the "LUV".

As an Employee...and a PROUD employee of SWA, I must say I am not suprised by what I have read. The sad thing is, everyone has their reasonings. Tall people believe they are the only ones to sit in an exit row. Parents with children think they should ALWAYS get to pre board. Business travelers think they should have the pick first because they are solo travelers and are the bank of our company. The truth is, everyone is. Every Customer of ours is VERY IMPORTANT. I was recently on a trip with my family. My husband, 17 yr. old daughter, 13 yr old son and my 2 year old son. (yea, quite a spread there lol) Of course being Employees, we were last to get on board. I was very happy to be on board but at that time, there were no seats together for me to sit with my 2 year old. No one was exactly willing to promptly give up a seat either. But you know what? Our FABULOUS flight attendants came through for me! And they will for you too! It did not matter that I was an employee. They did not know this. They helped get a seat together for my son and I and off we went....for an on time departure!
There will always be someone who is not happy. No one person/company is going to make everyone happy. As far as the families concerned about pre boarding, you still will board early.....in front of other people who are just as important. (remember, i'm a parent with a small kid too) Even if families board after group A, there are plenty of seats together I PROMISE. Don't knock it until you have tried it! Also, You, our awesome Customers, have luved us for a reason. Don't you know by now that we are here to server you? To do the best we can for you? We all know our Customers are our bread and butter! Just give it a try! You will probably find out it it much easier to chase down a 2 yr. old in the play area, instead of standing in line waiting.
Happy flying to all, and remember, the aisle and window seats arrive the same time the middle row does. :)
P.S.
I wish everyone had all their facts straight about our policy before rambling and complaining. :)

I am a frequent flyer with Southwest. I fly two to four times a month with them. I actually experienced their "new" system in a trip to Dallas, where I had a layover in San Antonio. The whole process I found to be completely dumb. We were given numbers but no one really knew where to stand so we all boarded just like before (A group). And, the attendant taking the tickets really didn't do anything to correct us. She really didn't want to enforce people lining up in order.

This whole thing is just a trick to get families with small children to board with everyone else, which is just plain wrong. Although I am a frequent flyer (and I hate flying), I hold nothing against families with small children. Anyone who thinks that they should get on board a plane before a small child shouldn't even be getting on plane in my opinion.

The fact that Southwest goes against the value of placing paramount importance on a child's safety is really disturbing. I guess it is just a sign of the times where everyone just cares about getting theirs and forget everyone else. I will definately be looking to use other airlines besides Southwest as my company pays for my airline tickets anyways.

Brian,
Your FA's do a wnderful job, they actually make the money for you as they are the face of LUV...I am just very disturbed with the comments of some of these people out here. Last I checked I was a kid too and I also had to be born and grow up. Some of these people's views sicken me and hope they can afford a piper jet and air taxi, then they will not have to fly with kids and I bet 90%4 are spoild rotten ones who ran wild and were exactally complaining about what they did as a kid. Yes we do have a few out there that cheat the system. Next year my youngest turns 4 and my oldest is 21 and 6 inbetween and we always fly SWA when we can and you know what, we will continue as we do buy the tickets for the car seat s to be used as their lives are more precious that a bump in the air and having them harmed. the FA's will continue to help those of us who need to be together, but I can tell ya as they get older they like to sit away from mom and dad. I love your airline and no one is perfect, but you are all trying to do your best. It is a changing society and it will continue to change, but Luv will still be in the smiles and attitudes for the great employees of SWA and I look forward to our next family flight. Keep up the good work and I bet if you notice problems and see fixes SWA will get it done. Looking forward to Turkey Day and that mess. I just hope everyone takes a deep breath and just have open minds and smile, we could be in a country that doesn't allow girls in schools and other opressions. God Bless America and God Bless SWA and some of the kindess folks in the Airline Industry.
One thing we all need to keep in mind is that SWA is a wonderful eample of people who may or may not be having the greatest day in their life, but you never see it on the face of an SWA employee, a little sugar goes a long way and I love how SWA prides it self as looking at everyone from an infant to a grandparent and inbetween as someone who should be honored and respected and smiled upon. I think we can use a little LUV training in our lives. Thanks Brian and Herb and Gary and Collen for all you do to motivate your folks and make SWA so special.

B P Heiss

Great point Tamra! I have NEVER had a problem getting two seats together, and those flight attendants are the BEST ever!

Thank goodness for another mother of a 2 year old to FINALLY agree with me! Boarding last works better for me! ;-) Why make them sit in a cabin for an extra 25 minutes? That's torture for them!

Nicole, a dedicated SWA applicant

As a mother flying with a small child on October 2, the day this policy goes into effect, I have to say boo to Southwest! You have made this policy change regarding family pre-boarding without addressing the on-line check in policy. When flying with an infant, I am barred from checking in on-line, and therefore, assured I will not be in the A group, and may not be able to sit with both my husband and my child. I chose Southwest when I made my reservation 5 weeks ago because of the old family boarding policy. Nice bait and switch. The new policy goes the complete opposite way, and now discriminates against families with small children. When I can check in 24 hours in advance like everyone else, it won't matter, but until then, I won't be flying Southwest again.

325 comments and counting, and still not one parent who was unable to find seats together during the San Antonio test. It seems that Southwest accurately reported the workability of the new procedure.

Pre-boarding was a security blanket, comforting but not actually necessary. Every parent knows what a fuss erupts when you take that security blanket or favorite stuffed toy away.

The fuss here will likely subside as everyone gains experience with mid-boarding and results trump the initial fears. People who still think they need the security blanket will likely be able to buy an "A" before too long. Or they can do what everyone else does: check in online or have a friend do it for you. (You can print your boarding pass at the airport, even if your friend checked you in from 2000 miles away 22 hours earlier.)

The lap child limitation is significant and needs to be fixed. As a work-around, perhaps one should not add the lap child to the reservation until AFTER checking in online? Just stop at the counter for a boarding pass for the infant to go with your "A". Can any SWA employees here comment on whether this will work?

*sigh*

Brian, I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you about whose "facts" are more valid -- yours are based on questionnaries completed by those in the midst of experiencing the changes who chose to participate in your survey, while mine are based on the responses of those who have chosen to comment on this and numerous other blogs/message boards. Neither sampling is scientifically valid, so ... whatever.

But one undeniable fact is that I have at least twice asked you some very simple, very direct, very specific questions about these changes, and you have danced around the answers at every opportunity, apparently assuming that "Just try it -- everybody we asked really loves it" is a universally valid answer.

On the bright side, you're clearly in the right line of work. Just keep sticking to those talking points and you're sure to go far.

I think the new proceedures are fine except the whole issue of families traveling with small children. As a father of twins you guys are NUTS. The old way I barely had time to get down the gang way buckle thier car seats in and not hold up the whole works.

You need to cut families some slack! Traveling with children is not fun not something my wife and I want to do, but since Ian and EmmaLyn's grandparents have failing health it is important to spend some time as we have the opportunity. One of the reasons we traveled SWAir in the past was the help and care given to us and our twins as we travel SWA.

Do what is right for the Children adults understand (Although reading some of the posts makes me wonder if some of these adults ever learned it's not about you!) Who ever is making these decisions is obviously never traveled recently with small children. If SWA moves forward with this Anti-Small Children Policy we won't fly SWA.

My 0.02,

Father of 2 yo twins.

To NSX -

Thanks for your suggestion on how to be able to check in on-line even when traveling with a lap child. A few months ago, I made a reservation on-line and forgot to call SW to have them add "plus infant" to my reservation. I checked in on-line, got an A pass and then went to the airport. At the airport, when I asked to add my son to my reservation, they cancelled my first "check in" and started me all over. Adding my lapchild changed my reservation/status completely. SW started the process all over again and I received a C pass.

Brian,

SMF Jeff has a good point. I'd also like to point out that you've mentioned Susie's prior post as Southwest's way of communicating the new process and the "good things" to come of it. What I find telling is that there is NO MENTION in that post (just a month ago) about the preboard changes. So... obviously this policy was either still in debate or Southwest really didn't want to open it up for debate with their customers.

Unfortunately, I did not get the opportunity to get a survey on the options and since the satisfaction survey is not for public consumption, I really don't see any evidence that the preboarding portion of the policy involved any customer feedback.

Here is what I'm seeing:

1. Quick shift in policy (preboard implementing 10/2 instead of along with the overall new line up policy).
2. Odd implementation time frame. There seems to be this sense of ugency to do this 4Q2007. Right during the Thanksgiving and winter holiday rush.
3. Southwest is saying that family preboarding is a problem for them. Not sure how the legacy carriers have gotten along for so long.
4. No consideration for lap children -- as evidenced by the earlier response you gave that a solution is being worked on but honestly no ETA on it.
5. "A" boarding group will be 1-60. Was it 60 during the San Antonio tests? Or did you all go with 1-45 there? More PAX on the plane before those families with small children who didn't have a chance to log on EXACTLY 24 hours earlier.
6. No more official word from Southwest. Your comments have been nice to see, but I am not feeling assured that this feedback is actually being considered... but rather controlled so it doesn't get out of hand.

I mentioned early on that I would appreciate hearing more details about this policy from the decision makers of the company. Many of us know who Colleen and Gary are and honestly feel that their past messages have contained a sense of rational empathy. A lot of what is going on with this policy just seems counter to the culture we've all become accustomed to.

See, Brian, the truth is that I don't believe you really have tried to answer my questions. In fact, the only person who has made any effort to do so is nsx at flyertalk.com -- who correctedly points out that an employee of SWA would certainly not be inclined to provide the answer he/she did.

One final time, spelled out as plainly and simply as I possibly can:

REGARDING THE NEW PRE-BOARD POLICY,

1. What is the rationale for the change?

2. What problems were found in the previous existing policy?

3. How does the new policy alleviate those problems?

You will notice that these questions have NOTHING to do with anyone's reactions to the changes. Therefore, citing the responses of survey participants after the fact is not an answer.

I've teed it up three times for you now. Time to rip it down the fairway or slink back to the clubhouse.

Jeff,
here is most of NSX's latest comments:

325 comments and counting, and still not one parent who was unable to find seats together during the San Antonio test. It seems that Southwest accurately reported the workability of the new procedure.

Pre-boarding was a security blanket, comforting but not actually necessary. Every parent knows what a fuss erupts when you take that security blanket or favorite stuffed toy away.

The fuss here will likely subside as everyone gains experience with mid-boarding and results trump the initial fears. People who still think they need the security blanket will likely be able to buy an Ã

SMF Jeff, I posted my guess as to the rationale for mid-boarding families (paid priority boarding in the near future), including an explanation of why Southwest would likely not want to 'fess up to that aspect. Would you care to tell us whether you agree with my guess? It's not fair to berate Brian for not answering you if you won't answer me. Although nobody on Southwest has told me anything on this issue, you may have noticed that Brian hasn't posted that my guess is wrong. Besides that, industry analysts expect this sort of change soon.

Mike in AZ, do you agree with my guess?

Whether I'm right or wrong on the rationale for reducing family boarding priority, posts here confirm that a significant fraction of customers have been irritated by apparent abuse of pre-boarding. Switching families to mid-boarding addresses that concern, and that's undoubtedly part of the reason for the change.

Brian, I have another question: Under what circumstances will the size of the A boarding group be reduced from its maximum of 60? Will 60 be normal for an originating flight? Will you just subtract the number of through passengers when deciding how many A's to issue? The more we know about details like this the better we can assure ourselves in advance that everthing will be OK for us with the new system.

Julie, if the airport people need to cancel your check-in and re-do it with the infant, try asking them to do it VERY QUICKLY. Preferably with one person removing you from the flight and the other one adding you back within a second or two. Here's why: When your check-in is cancelled, your old "A" goes back into the pool for the very next customer checking in to grab. You want that very next customer to be you. Once you explain this to the person at the counter, he or she may likely take it as an entertaning challenge to be speedy enough to keep your "A".

Incidentally, this quirk (removal of someone from a flight puts that boarding pass back in the pool) provides an interesting opportunity to upgrade yourself from a "C". Suppose there are several flights to your destination. Some people at the airport will be changing from your flight to one of those earlier flights. Some of those people will already have A's. Can you see where I am going with this?

If you wait until Southwest has cleared standbys (beginning 10 minutes before departure of that earlier flight), you have a decent chance of picking up someone's dropped "A" for your flight. Just explain your plan and ask the counter agent to remove you and check you back in. If you already have a "C" you don't have much to lose. I've only tried this twice, but both times I got an "A".

You can read about this and much more in the Southwest FAQ at http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Southwest_Rapid_Rewards

One other question for Brian: Why has Ding been on vacation since Thursday? Did the person who writes the goofy rhyming announcements get sick or something?

Brian,
Cheer up! People are hard to please.
I do think it is a bit of a waste of money to change the boarding signs and related items at DTW when you'll be moving next year, but it needs to be done to match the rest of the system.
And now a special signature to cheer you up!

His cheek
Was rough
His chick vamoosed
And now she won't
Come home to roost
Burma-Shave
and
Doesn't
Kiss you
Like she useter?
Perhaps she's seen
A smoother rooster!!
Burma-Shave

Ding! boy
Joe :-)

Hmm, as a new mother, I agree, I certainly won't be travelling Southwest now. I can already feel the "air rage" coming on at the image of people cutting ahead of me while I'm folding my stroller,then, when on board, being the jerk who slows everyone down by putting my car seat in.

However, I previously didn't fly Southwest because I loathed the cattle call and lining up an hour early as a single person. So I might actually fly as a single person now. Though probably not, b/c the security line at LAX is always an hour or more for SWA and 15 minutes for all other airlines.

Maybe SWA could do what British Airways does... have the car seats PRE-INSTALLED as a SERVICE. (I'd pay $25 for that!) But it appears no U.S. based airlne company is interested in providing real solutions for their family customers.

Brian, its just that I'm frustrated that SW seems to have thrown this "add-on" sort of idea of deleting pre-board into a change of policy. Frankly, I don't care much about that other policy change but it seems like this "add-on" was not directly vetted or addressed as far as I can tell. On a lighter note, I kind of disagree with an earlier thing said about the mad scramble for seats. I do not see any such scamble when I fly. People seem rather orderly to me. And I am even more confused by comments about people waiting in the the A, B, C lines. Why would people complain about something voluntary? If someone has an A card, what are they in line for? Why? Why do they stand there? Really, I don't get it. They are going to get a nice seat no matter what. This is also mostly true for B. The only reason I stand in line at A or B is because I know I'll be sitting for the next hour or so. I just don't get why anyone would complain about something so voluntary. Are they trying to save the extra two minutes getting off the plane? Its that important to them? As I said, things are different if you have kids and are trying to assure a spot next to them, don't want them to get stepped on by others, and need the extra couple of minutes to put the car seat in place so I'm not having to juggle the car seat, keep the kid out of the way of others all while trying to get space for the extra items children need. And I travel a bit and I really only remember once seeing a group purposely taking advantage by using a baby to get their whole group of 7 or 8 on. I believe my experiences must be different than others.

Good Grief, People...

This has degenearted into Bad Theatre. Brian, I think you're doing an estimable job of keeping a cool head in the face of the particularly persistent people who don't seem to have anything better to do than to continue to attack. (I'm tempted to say theyÃ

I have done a self survey while traveling and find that none of the parents seem to care as long as they can sit together with the kids, so relax people!

EMD,

Sorry - off topic, but I read that you are a project manager and have a question. How would you recommend getting the required PM hours for PMP (I need 4500!) if my job requires minimal project management (maybe 5 hours per week) and the company is not really big into the whole "cross training" thing? Translation: My department does not want to lose me because they cannot replace me under cost containment restraints, so therefore, is less than encouraging in this pursuit.

Again - sorry off topic! I need advice!

Still Applying at SWA......

Here's an idea for people who are nervous about finding seats together: Put a $10 bill in your pocket. If you are the first family on record not able to find seats together under the new system, just offer the $10 (or anything of similar value) to the first person willing to switch from his aisle seat to a middle to make space for you.

This way you won't have to risk having to pay those nasty $100 change fees on some other airline, and you have at least a 99% chance of keeping your $10 in your pocket.

Problem solved.

If Southwest starts offering paid priority boarding, you can pay the money to Southwest. My method costs you nothing because you'll never need to ask anyone to switch.

Lets see if I have this correct.
Under the old system families with small (crying) children could board first and I could board later choosing to sit away from them. Under the new system, if I'm in the "A" boarding and choose my seat those with small children can sit next to me. Thanks a lot

It has always irked me when we get to the gate an hour and a half early and someone comes in 20 minutes before the flight and cuts in line. I think the new boarding procedure is as fair as you can get and I'm glad you did it.

I won't stop flying Southwest because you changed the child boarding policy, either.

NSX,
I don't have exact numbers on the families who were surveyed, but we surveyed every flight booked to 100 or more Customers. It was summer and a heavy family travel period, and the surveying lasted for almost two months. So there were a lot of families included.

At this point, I don't know if our programming will even allow an adjustment of the group allotments at the airport. The airports do have the capability to restrict boarding pass issuance to the gate only, but this is only done in rare occasions.

I will share your suggestions with our Ground Operations Leaders.

Brian

My family and I are flying Southwest departing SMF on October 2nd, the first day of 'no young children preboarding'. We will be flying with an infant and a four year-old. I have flown Southwest for years and have been a fan. If I had known about this impending decision, we would not have chosen Southwest. I will reserve judgment until we see how the trip goes. However, we passed over good deals from other airlines because I like Southwest. We will probably choose an airline that allows our family to preboard in the future.

AMEN to everything Amazed just posted.

[...] Creating a place on your own site,Â

I'm almost 6'-8", so I've got exactly 10 seats on an SWA flight that are somewhat comfortable to choose from (6 in front, 3 over the left wing, and 1 over the right wing). If I don't check in 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds before my flight, I'm skee-rooed. This oughta be real fun (and easy) to do from the car. At 6:20 in the morning. In the middle of nowhere.

So I'm not exactly looking forward to the change. But I'll give it a shot.

The pre-board thing is a different story. I LIKE getting them out of the way, even if they do always end up taking 6 of those 10 seats. I can't wait until I'm behind a 3 year old pulling her Dora roller bag down 20 aisles, getting the wheels stuck on every seat, stopping to pick up paper clips, and getting yelled at by mom to keep up with them (and take the paper clips out of their mouth). And then wait for mom to put in a child seat, put the infant in it, then get the 3 year old settled, then put the bags in the overhead, and THEN I can move on to my seat...not gonna be fun. How exactly does this speed the boarding process?

I don't care if Cousin Ernesto gets a good seat because there is a toddler in his family, let's get them in and settled before the masses stampede in.

I suspect this policy will change the day after someone drops a roller bag on some kid's head and gets $20 million out of SWA.

Most of these parents complaining about the change in the preboard policy for families are hypocrites. If you need extra time getting ON the plane then it only makes sense that you will need extra time getting OFF the plane. These parents always hold everyone up when they insist on getting off the plane first. In addition, many families abused the old policy by bringingon 10 family members with one child. Since it is only possible for 3 people to sit together anyway, only 2 people should have been allowed to board with a child. A compromise solution would be to let the families board first but require them to sit at the back.

Right on, Lori! I think LUV is smart enough to know that complainers are loud but few - especially on this forum. Not to say they don't have a right to speak up, but I'm thinking at least some have been riding the early boarding gravy train with low fares and now that ride is over.

However, some people who disagree with the new family boarding process do make some good points, especially as it pertains to car seats. I think it's a no brainer that if you paid to put a baby in a car seat, then I think it may be a good idea to let them board first - in the back of the plane. This allows them take all the time they need to set everything up, and when the plane lands, to undo everything. How many families would qualify for that anyway? I don't think that would impact much of anything.

I'm a business traveler AND a family man. I've traveled with my babies (now a little older), and can attest that it is difficult. However, sometimes you have work a little harder on your own, or give something up, rather than expecting everyone else do that extra work. If you can board first, then you should expect to have to sit in the back.

For families with older - but still young (like me)- children, under the new plan, you should still be able to get your seats together. If not, have a plan for yourself, like getting your boarding documents, checking in online, and if all else fails, decide early on the 2+3 split or other scenario. It may be your 13 year old has to sit by himself one row ahead of you. It doesn't always work the way you want it.

You can always ask your neighbors once they are settled in if they would move. 90% on LUV that is the case. I think many of these "family posters", travel with a chip on their shoulder, and the tone of their posts seem to bear it out. Honey attracts the bees.

One thing about LUV is that over the many, many years, they made way more good decisions than bad. I think everyone needs to give this a chance. I think the big picture boarding process is here to stay, there's still room to tweak everything, like board car seat families first.

This month, I will be traveling on business, and will certainly appreciate being able to grab a bite to eat and showing up at my appropriate time, rather than camping out in order to avoid the mid row seat.

I just hope that LUV has trained the FA's to expect those chip-on shoulder disgruntled 11 member "families" who now have to board after A, that now they will be trying to rearrange the A's when they board. They tried to take advantage of the system before, and I don't expect them to stop. That could be the real holdup in this new system.

In the end, I think this will be a problem, and LUV will have to deal with it. I think eventually, LUV will have to let the families and invalids before first again - IN THE BACK. I'm not against that - but make them PROVE they are a family and have to sit together. Assign each a "unit pass" that they would use to board.together. If they don't have a unit pass, they don't board. Most true families or persons accompanying an invalid would have absolutely no problem getting one. You just have to write the rules strict, and have all the grief occur at a service desk in the concourse rather than on the plane.

Like Lori said, it's the people who want to take advantage of the system that are the issue, not true families or accompanying adults. If the family posters on here have an issue, take it up with the cheaters who are trying to get on with you, not LUV!

Are you people serious? Do you really think that the Southwest cattle call procedure is faster than assigned seating? Unless you are in the front of the A group you end up waiting in the jetway since the first group that enters jams the aisle getting a forward seat.

The main reason to fly Southwest is if the price is right , you are flying alone and the sechedule works If I fly alone i'm fine with the stupidity of the cattle call, but if I'm with family I want to know I can travel next to my wife and/or children. How many times have you seen families come on board in the C group and only to be scattered about the plane? If alone I try to get up my seat if it helps them set together. That family may have made a reservation well in advance but if they don't beat the new on-line check in lottery they're out of luck.

I personally will pay an additional $50/$100 per seat on a different airline to be able to set with my family.

This new procedure may eliminate the early line up, but those travelling with a group you still won't have a clue if you can set with your loved ones until 24 hours before departure.

I still don't like Southwest's procedures for boarding.

I find the hostility toward children in this discussion rather troubling. I flew near two kids last December, and they were just fine.

However, if you have a child under four, allow only one adult or teenager to preboard with them. That's a simple solution to preboard abuse.

I live in San Antonio, TX and tried the new boarding procedure. I really like it and think it is great. HOWEVER, if Southwest does not win the lawsuit against the web company that is printing all those "A" boarding passes for $5.00 each way then I think you should go to assigned seating.

I don't think I should have to pay some company to get an A pass. That's just not fair. And, the fact that I got my boarding pass 2 minutes after the time and was number 15 makes me think this company is going to be able to get all the "A" passes for those willing to pay.

I'd rather pay Southwest the extra $10.00 for the A pass if I have to pay someone.

Seems like a good compromise has been mentioned here and elsewhere but there is no response from SWA here. Specifically, allow child preboard with a limit of one or two parents per child only, and require them to sit at the back of the plane.

The benefits would be:
1. No one with A section cards (or probably B) would be impacted because whether its under the old or new boarding number scheme, they would still get their desired aisle/window/exit aisle seats.
2. Due to laws of physics, it would be impossible to say family preboard slowed up anyone.
3. Families would get the extra time needed.
4. The people who dislike sitting near children would be able to avoid them.
5. The boarding process will not have to be stressful with SWA personnel filtering out families and trying to move them ahead of the B line passengers. The SWA personnel would only have to say that you may now preboard, but you need to sit in the back rows so the cost to them is zero.
6. SWA could avoid the negative publicity and look like they care about children and listen to their customers. Actually, just announcing this would lead to all sorts of news articles and lots of free positive publicity.

If your five travelers are on one reservation, you will get all 5 boarding passes with one check-in. The BP numbers will be sequential.

If the travelers are on separate reservations, as they will be if you are using Rapid Rewards tickets, you need to check in 5 times. Probably someone else will check in at the same time, and your 5 boarding pass numbers may be spread across a range of 10 or more. Probably you will need to board according your pass numbers and meet up again on the aircraft. Or you could board together according to the higher numbers you hold and nobody would be upset.

I have enjoyed reading all of the comments for the past week or so. Wow, there are so many mad people out there. After my initial rants and seeing everyone else's, I have thought of some suggestions on how Southwest might be able to redeem itself. Brian - get out your pencil.

1. Rapid Rewards should be a tier system that allows for preboard. It sounds like those who fly 100,000 miles with you would probably enjoy this perk, plus it would free up lots of A passes for others.

2. Clearly abuse at preboard was an issue that Southwest thought would best be solved with the "everyone gets punished" rule. That's fine, though it would help if flight attendants would take just a couple of minutes and direct traffic on the plane, making sure that people find seats. This is especially true on connector flights where even the A group has trouble finding seats. I think it would ease everyone's mind to know that even if they were in the C group, there was a possibility that they can get seats in the quickest time possible.

3. Southwest really needs to take a look at its policies. I hope the "Airport" show was a really eye-opener on how same policies are defined at different airports. For example, we flew in April with our then 11-month-old to Nashville. We were not asked for his birth certificate in Houston, even though it was a policy. We were asked in Nashville, so congrats to them for following the rules. See what I mean? Rules cannot be inconsistent between cities, that is how people get mad. Remember the woman who was told her bag was too big for the overhead, and she was followed all over the airport, though she kept insisting she flew every week and no one ever told her that before? Something tells me that by the way she was so angry, she probably had been told her bag was too big at every airport she was at, but she learned that by getting mad and hysterical, Southwest would let her have her way in the end. Or at least that's what I am hoping because it disproves the "everyone follows the same rules" notion.

4. How could we all not understand the frustration of having to stay up until 2 a.m. to log on at exactly 24 hours before a flight to get the A group, go to the airport 3 hours early, stake out a place in the lane and sit there for 2 and a half hours to save your place. Then 10 minutes before boarding, have two parents and their infant get on before you when they didn't do the same thing. The nerve of those people. I think one person commented that why do parents think they are entitled to board first? It's for the same reason as the person I mentioned above. We also got to the airport 3 hours ahead, but between standing at the counter for our plus infant pass, getting through security, making our way to the gate, etc., we started to get a sense that we worked hard to get that preboard. Those of you not taking strollers, car seats, diaper bags, having all of your lotions, potions, etc. evaluated for their ounce, just got to the gate a little faster than the rest of us.

5. Yes, it stinks to have a boatload of people show up 2 minutes before boarding and get in preboard, but did you stop and consider that maybe they were also there 3 hours ago, but it's not always possible to sit still for 3 hours at a gate with children? It's easier to get up and move around. Would you rather they checked in with the first person in A group to let them know they had been there?

6. I'm sure that everyone has had a bad experience with not getting to the plane on time. I literally ran through the Detroit airport with my then 4-month-old in my arms, from one side of the airport to another, to get on my connection. If you have been to Detroit, you know my pain. My husband had run ahead with the stroller to try and keep the flight attendants from closing the doors. We barely made it. Just having that experience makes you forever weary of your next travel experience with your child.

7. After mentioning the scenario in my fourth point, the worry on the minds of parents is that the person who fought so intently to get to the head of the A group to board first, is now the person who will be expected to give up their seat in the event that should happen. Why is it then so insane a concept, given those circumstances, that we think it will be hard for us to get a seat together? I'm very happy that Nicole said she liked sitting apart from her husband, but I would like to sit by mine, so why should my request for a decent seat be any different than the person who logged on at 2 a.m.?

Christine-
You are able to log in on Southwest.com 24 hrs prior to your flight departure to receive your boarding pass. You do not have to wait until 12am or 2am to do that. This has been in effect since 11/7/06.

Joe-Boarding passes cannot be called in. This must be done only on southwest.com or on your cell phone if you have internet capability. (Mobile.southwest.com) & print your boarding pass from the kiosk at the airport the next day.

Everybody calm down now. You haven't even tried this, yet. I am very sure you will like this. We have received nothing but positive feedback from our SAT customers.

Am I confused or have I missed the response???? What is SWA solution for a parent that is unable to check in online with a lap child? I am not clear why you cannot check in online anyway - I have not been asked once for the actual birth certificate to verify his age.

In looking over everyone's comments about families boarding first, there's something missing from those that are pushing to keep that privilege. As a frequent business traveler, I don't mind families boarding first at all, because it does give me a chance to avoid sitting near small children if I want to. Lately, however, it seems families are trying to avoid sitting by other families as well! They are spread all over the plane, and I usually end up going all the way to the back, which is annoying when having to wait for all of these families to exit, and then have to wait for car seats, etc in the jetway.
Why not just have families board first & sit behind the exit rows, in the back 1/2 of the plane?

I have now read enough of the posts above to realize I am not the only one upset with Southwest for ending the preboarding for children 4 and under and the adults with them. I have seen 4 - 5 adults get on with one pre-4 child and that is their abuse. Not everyone should be punished for their ignorance and selfishness. Let 2 adults board with pre-4 kids. Limit the abuse and don't punish the families or lose their patronage.

I have never been on a flight where families with small children do not go near the rear of the plane. They are quite considerate and if adults can't take a crying child for a few moments, they need to stay home.

I am seriously contemplating ending my frequent flights with Southwest over this. Between my daughter and her family and my husband and I traveling that would be about 10 - 12 flights a year.

Very disappointing!
The new policy regarding not letting famlies with small children is very disappointing news for me. I believe that this is one of the worst changes Southwest could make. This time not only allows time for us with children to get settled and out of the way but guarantees that our seats our together. I do not see how this will speed up the process when families will now be blocking the aisles trying to get everyone settled or having everyone move around in order to get seats together. Assigning seats is the only way to balance out this new policy change. Unfortunately I will now be checking other airlines first that are more family friendly instead of coming directly to Southwest. The fares alone will not bring me back.
Boo to you Southwest!

Does assigned seating guarantee that families get to sit together? NO If you wait 'til the last minute (by design or because of an unexpected event), a large family will likely not sit together.

With open seating on Southwest, you are much more likely to be accommodated because their system is, by design, more flexible.

Would it be okay if families were guaranteed A boarding passes, but only at the end of the A group? If YES, then guess what ... that is what the new policy GUARANTEES, right?

And, families who have B or C board passes get to MOVE UP in front of other Bs and Cs.

There is more up side than down to this policy, and if everyone would stop freaking out for just a minute, I think they would see it.

Please quit complaining about the new preboard policy. Get online and get your boarding pass like the rest of the passengers. You can get an "A" and be in the first boarding group. The old policy was totally unfair to other passengers who had to arrive to the airport early/on-time and watch as the preboarders arrived late, scurrying though security and received what we would consider preferential treatment. Also, this new policy leaves us less stressed out for once. I have travelled with my children from infancy through their teen years - I'm not sure as to the reason for all this stress you keep mentioning. It was never stressful flying with my children - please do get organized. Southwest, we luv you! We use you for business and pleasure . Thank you!

I have been a frequent flyer on SWA for many years. I was pleasantly surprised when flying home from San Antonio today that I did not have to camp out in line for over an hour to get a decent seat on the plane. I was totally disappointed, however, to see that families would not be able to pre-board anymore. There was only one family boarding this time and they were seen scurring for seats towards the back of the plane, already partially full from the Las Vegas flyers continuing on to Dallas and 30 more filled seats from the A group. What will happen when there are 5 families boarding a plane? The isles will be clogged with children and parents trying to find seats together. It will take extra time urging others already settled in their seats to move so children can sit with their parents. Without seat assignments, this new policy causes families to become second class citizens and their trip becomes more tense than it already is. In the long run, all the passengers suffer. Pre-boarding families has to be reconsidered.

Why don't you think about it like this, "Whoever buys the most tickets boards first". That way my family of 5 will always be on first and sitting within a reasonable distance of myself or my husband.
The business traveler is alone, with a laptop and nothing better to do than stand in line and make sur they are the first on the plane. I have seen it time and time again. The "grown up" person traveling alone should be last to board and fill in whereever there is an empty seat. Who cares the seats are all the same. The only people who really care where they sit are the families. They need to be able to tend to their children. Why not let them have that priority? They bought the most tickets, I am sure.

No more pre-boarding for families??? We fly every couple of months from Oregon to California. I have flown a number of times without my husband with my 9 month old & 2 1/2 year old. Pre-boarding is key. We have tickets for a trip next week and I can tell you that this will be the last time Southwest will get this family's business. Not smart Southwest!!

I am hoping this new system will work out, but i still think it would be best when booking your flight online you should be able to assign your seating just like every other airline does. This way now you should be able to call the back of the plane to start boarding first by there row# I think this would be a lot easier & efficient. Also with pre-boarding, families with children under the age of 5 (not under 12) should pre-board & it should only be the parents of the children not the entire party. also preboard should also be for people that can't walk & need a wheelchair to get on because preboarding now is geting way out of hand, people just coming up with all excuses to get on even when they don't have a blue pre-boarding pass and go up to the gate person to tell there reason ( such as one woman complaining that she needs to be closer to the bathroom, or another that just can't walk that great & then when getting off the plane she's running fast as can be. also if your an older person not in a wheelchair & can walk & stand in preboarding line all that time til its ready to board & your flying with someone younger I don't see that fare to be on that line, I can wait for you to board if you happen to be in front of me). You see some people on that line that are standing & walking & yet they are pre-boarding, for what reason. I always took pre-boarding from long ago to be only people in wheelchairs & families with young young kids. Whose to say that someone who has a brace on or bandages & crutches with them are being honest, these are thing you always have that are yours from any previous accident & can use them when you want. All these issues are you suppose to have a Doctor note or not? I hope this new boarding will work out for the best, i still think assigned seating is the best way to go by calling row #'s from back of plane.

I'm sure this "new-and-improved" preboarding system makes sense for the bottom line, but Southwest's customer loyalty is clearly hurting. Look at all of the negative posts on this blog. These are not from 3 or 4 isolated crackpots. This is a concensus among families (do a Google search on this subject and you'll find dozens of parenting blogs condemning this decision). I won't be surprised if a competing airline sees this as an opportunity -- and when they reach out to me and my family, I'll be ready to give them my business.

I think that Southwest is making a mistake. They believe they are making life better for their most profitable market, business travelers, but they ignore the fact that business travelers and families chose them because of their competitive pricing. Although the margins are greater for business travelers, the price they paid would typically be cheaper than a competing airline; I doubt they used boarding policy as a deciding factor. Personally I fly Southwest for business travel because of a good record, and that I stand a better chance of arriving on time.

This policy change is fundamentally Ã

I can't tell you how frustrated I am that this new "no family pre-boarding" announcement was made AFTER I booked my holiday reservations. Had I known this, I would certainly have selected a different carrier. You really should consider postponing the roll-out until after flights booked prior to the announcement have been completed.

As other posters have mentioned, travelling with a toddler is incredibly stressful. My kid is actually quite well behaved and I am a strong disciplinarian, but throw any 2-year-old into a foreign situation with tons of strangers in tight quarters and then force them to remain seated for several hours at a time? Forget about it. Even the most well behaved children can become screaming hellions under these circumstances. You cannot reason with a 2-year-old. Whether a BABY or TODDLER will act up on a flight is a total crap shoot and quite frequently has NOTHING to do with discipline or a lack thereof.

And about the lateness? Last Christmas--flying Southwest--we BARELY made the preboarding... yet we had arrived at the airport 3 HOURS before our flight. Getting through security with a 1-year-old, a stroller, and an enormous carseat proved to be ridiculously time consuming, due to no fault of our own. It is extremely presumptuous to assume that every family arriving in the "nick of time" is doing so because they're incompetent.

At the very least, families who plan to install CARSEATS on the plane should still be allowed to board first. I can't wait to see what kind of bottleneck my son and I will create as we stand in the aisle while my husband occupies nearly an entire row for 5+ minutes trying to get that thing strapped in. You are kidding yourselves if you think this isn't going to be an issue. I am seriously DREADING the prospect of flying SWA this Christmas.

I'm a mom of a 15 month old AND a business traveller. Travelling for business - with all the delays and missed flights and everything - is far easier than doing the same, alone, with a toddler. To the poster who didn't get what all the "stress" is about - it seems you had the luxury of taking your infants on flights pre 9/11. When I get to the airport, I still have to wait in Long Line#1 with Toddler for my boarding pass and lap-child ticket. Then Long Line # 2 with Toddler to get through security - including holding baby in one hand, closing up a stroller with another and holding my boarding pass in my mouth while kicking off my right shoe with my left foot and swearing that the liquid in the Sponge Bob sippy cup is indeed milk. I would have just enough time to change a diaper and wipe the sweat off my forehead before heading to the gate but I always felt some relief knowing that at the very least, we could pre-board and my blood pressure would go down. Pre-board is the only reason I fly SW. I think it's time to remove the Ding from my computer.

I cannot fathom how you do not see the importance of family pre-boarding. I realized that some people would understand when I ask them to find a different seat so that I may install a carseat and sit beside my 2 year old, but just like anywhere else some people cannot be bothered by such an inconvenience. Of course, someone else may enjoy tending to my toddler & I'm sure the flight staff as well as the other passengers will enjoy the screams of "I want my mommy!" for the duration of the flight.
I hope that you will reconsider your position.

Southwest has done a great job of balancing fairness (for those who plan ahead) and family needs. Families still pre-board ahead of 2/3rds of the passengers, and they can do even better with modest planning. My wife and I traveled with our children when they were young, and it's not easy. But the inconvenience of traveling with kids was not a function of when we boarded, it was a function of all the other stuff involved when traveling with small children. The boarding and disembarking are only a fraction of the trip. And this plan still assures that families will sit together. Walking back an extra few rows of seats is nothing compared to the journey from home, to the airport, through security, out to the gate, and onto the plane.

Having said that, here is a possible solution to the concerns voiced by traveling parents--go back to allowing families to pre-board, but have them fill the seats from the back. That has several advantages: (a) families can continue to settle in without blocking other boarding passengers; (b) families will be conveniently seated nearest the restrooms; and (c) kids will be seated together away from most business travelers.

We fly from WPB to ISP at least 3-4 times a year with SWA. On our last flight 32 wheelchairs went on before the A line moved. When we reached ISP only 6 wheelchairs were needed. Another SWA miracle flight. We see this everytime we fly with SWA. This was the biggest number ever. Hey, people with children are real. You see the kids. But 75% of those using the wheel chair route because there is no assigned seating are phony. Do something about this nonsense and stop worrying about families with kids. If you start loading the wheelchairs last you will see how few people use them and that will speed up loading the plane.

One last thought . . .
When I called SWA customer relations number, the agent I spoke with FLAT OUT told me that this decision was to make business travelers happy, because they were "where the money is at." That may be true, but I was astonished that he was so proud to admit it. This airline has had bad press much of the summer regarding passenger dress issues and used "family airline" as their defense. I think I'd like to see that "family airline" attitude in place for things that are important, including allowing families a few extra moments to get down the jetway, get strollers collapsed (without hurried people trampling them to get 'a better seat') and get their families seated together.

I read a number of comments from travelers, and then the responses from Southwest, and then decided to post my own. I have flown Southwest as an individual, as part of a couple, and over the past 3 1/2 years, as a mother with my growing family. As an individual, I was on the ball, and always got there early enough to check-in for group A or B so I would have some choice of seat. I never stood in the actual boarding line to be at the front; I just waited until my group got on and then got on. I thought standing in the line for an hour was silly, but having an A or B got me somewhere comfortable, no matter if I was first or 60th. This worked well, and I liked being able to sit away from the families, who all tended to crowd together at the front.

Now I am a mom. We've flown with our 3 1/2 y.o. since 9 wks, our second took her first flight at 5 wks, & has been just as good. They are typically no louder than most people carrying on general conversations. What I've already found challenging is that I can not check-in online with a lap child. I used to buy my kids seats regardless of their age, just to guarantee the space, but they often sat in my lap anyway, and 2x now, Southwest has asked me to give up my already paid-for kids seat because someone else wanted to buy a ticket. So, I have to wait in the tickey line already to check-in. I don't have the chance to check in early. There is no way I can get into group A with my situation. Preboard was the only option. I have a flight schedueld for late October where I will be looking for 3 seats together and carrying a lapchild.

Without the ability to check-in online with a lap-child, and no availability of assigned seats, there is no way for my family to get into group A and guarantee the number of seats together. We'll see how happy kid unfriendly travelers are then when they have my kids spitting up breatmilk on them as I nurse them to keep them quiet.

I'll reserve my final decision about whether I will continue to fly SW until after that flight, but one of the reasons I have stuck with them without reserved seating is because I could still sit together with my family even though there was no assigned seating.

I posted earlier that I would withhold judgment on this program until we finished our trip (wife, 4 year-old, lap baby, and myself). The trip is over, and I do not like this program. It seems clear to me this policy is a way to segregate families to the back of the plane. When we preboarded in the past, we sat up front by the bulkhead. This prevented another passenger's seat from being kicked or otherwise disturbed by the preschooler. Try as we might, we cannot always prevent this from happening over five hours of flight time, so on this trip SWA had multiple unhappy passengers: Us, and those who had to sit in front of our 4 year-old.

Good luck with your family-segregation-ghetto policy, Southwest. We will not fly this airline again.

I love the comments from those who complain that pre-boarding isn't fair. Are handicap parking spaces fair???

And for those who continue to say "why does it matter what seat you get, the front of the plane arrives at the same time as the rear," please grow to 6'-8" and then tell me it doesn't matter where you sit.

And you really gotta love the guy right above who thinks his time is more important that anyone else's.

Is this a great site, or what?

In response to nsx at flyertalk.com who states to notify the airline when you get to the airport about a lap-child: In my experience, because I have done this before, a new boarding pass will be reissued when you notify them at the airport of a lap-child. The new boarding pass will not necessarily be in the same boarding group that you were issued on-line. You must get the new boarding pass before you go through security, after waiting in line at check-in (which can take a really long time), otherwise, you can't go through security with the lap-child (in case you were thinking you could notify the gate agents.)

And for people like Getthemthehelloutofway...if you are so important, buy a first class ticket on an airline that assigns seats and has a separate section for jerkslikeyou. You might even consider chartering your own plane. At least then someone will be forced to pretend you are a civil human being.

I see your new policy of familes after the A group lasted about a week. Now families with children age 4 and under get to preboard? Happen in Austin Sunday night