This was an excellent blog as I have been asking myself all of these questions since I learned about the ATA predicament. I am one of the unfortunate ones who already had a trip booked with Southwest to Hawaii in May. I understand that I should wait until after Apr. 7th to contact Southwest to determine my fate, but with all the other travel accommodations already set in stone, I would sure like to know (sooner) what if anything Southwest plans to do with us... give a refund or find a way to accommodate the customer?? If a refund is the answer, then I have to hustle to get other accommodations made on my own! [I'm not an angry customer at all. I totally understand how business works... just would like to know a little more about my individual situation.]

Working in the industry, I know exactly what you are talking about. A common term that I used to have to work with was ETOPS, Ref wikipdeia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS for more info. If that is not enough info into ETOPS, for those with time and desire for knowledge, go to http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo... . This document from the FAA basically covers many more details concerning over water flight.

After looking at the last document, many of you should see that over water flight is not as simple as it may look.

1.) Aircraft I would guess already have the required avionics, but would probably require more safety equipment on board.

2.) Flight crews would require more and different training, as would maintenance crews.

3.) Would need maintenance base over in Hawaii (as flying items on MEL are severly reduced for overflight travel.) This would also mean more cost for storage and maintenance of parts. An example may be the Auto Pilot. Flying over land, MEL on the Auto Pilot for example, flying over land, it would not be required, however, over water it is a NO-GO. Therefore, they would need ALL the parts available on site to repair this problem. This could be MILLIONS of dollars worth of parts alone.

4.) Company must preform proving runs to prove to the FAA that they can do this safely and this takes time.

5.) They must open a base at the desired station(s), train the personell, supply the ground equipment, and more.

I am sure that I left alot of details out, but doing this would be no easy task... I for one would love to see SWA undertake this, but it would be a very expensive and time consuming task. I am sure that some day, SWA will have routes over there, but not in the close foreseeable future.

I hope that I have not confuesed anyone with this, but I hope it outlines alot of whys to SWA's decision.

Bill ... there you go with logic again!

Come on! Can't we go to Hawaii just because it would be WAY COOL :-)

B

Brian, thank you. This information was helpful and I appreciate it!

BTW: I do love Southwest Airlines. I'll be back and I know you guys will figure out how best to serve your customers soon!

Would it have been possible for Southwest to somehow "prop up" ATA for a very short period of time, with the stipulation that no new trips could originate? This would have been expensive, sure. But, it would have demonstrated a commitment to customers who (as of the time of ATA's shutdown) had already flown the outbound portion of their itinerary but had not flown the return segment(s). Possibly some kind of "wet lease" agreement and/or Southwest paying ATA's operating costs (for the scheduled service side of their business only) for 1 or 2 weeks?

Based on how quickly ATA went down the drain, I think it was prudent to not try to prop them up.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't do.

Happy Friday afternoon, everyone! A few answers/comments:

Diana...even though Brian has already answered you--best of luck!!! And see you again soon, I hope.

John C.---excellent, and spot-on, additional information, sir. Thanks!

Cranky, operating any subsidiary operation would open up a host of work-scope and union issues--none of which could, or would, be solved quickly enough to implement before ATA's shutdown.

Bob--thanks for lunch! :)

Steve, we may be slow to move into new cities....but remember the old children's story about the tortise and the hare?

Jon, Southwest had no equity stake or business interest in ATA, and it just wouldn't have made good business sense to do so given their financials.

Rich, since DCA is tightly slot-controlled--and ATA had pulled out of DCA late last year--getting into DCA will be difficult for Southwest. For the time being I hope you'll be able to access the Southwest network via our new service to Dulles, or our huge operation at Baltimore.

Keep commenting--I'll be checking over the weekend!

Bill

Thanks for a great post. I am always interested in the "inside details" of how things like airlines work. The more we understand, the better it is for customers, shareholders, and everyone.

Thanks for the insider information about the Why's. It's great to hear from the company's end on why Southwest can't fly right now.

But does it have to stop there? Will Southwest fly to Hawai'i (or other overseas destinations for that matter) in the future?

As I have known, Southwest has a very good Spirit and will power to take on challenges and prevail over them. Why is Hawai'i any different? Your post here makes it sound like Hawai'i (and thus other overseas destinations) impossible to handle. I know that you can. Southwest is one of the best airlines out there.

I believe that Southwest has an opportunity to step in and build up in first Hawai'i as well as start up other destinations for the future.

Keep trying! Don't stop just because "we can't right now".

Thanks. Looking forward to flying with you again.
Peace.

Why doesn't Southwest link up with a carrier like Omni Air to operate Hawaii. I flew them and they are the best airline I have ever been on.

Bill,

thanks for the explanation but I am still a little bit disappointed. I understand that there are many problems (and that this would be challenging), but it would also secure you a few hundred very loyal customers (we who have been using the old Pleasant Hawaiian Airpass and ATA Flightbank lately).

I live parttime in the islands and will now have to switch my mainland -to-Hawaii business (140,000 miles/year, $12,000 in tickets last year, $11,000 the year before) from ATA to Hawaiian. If you start serving the islands somehow in the next six to eight months, you have a chance to keep me as a customer, otherwise I'll get "comfortable" with Hawaiian (and accumulate so many frequent flyer miles) that it will be hard to get my business back should you change my mind.

Hawaiian has already started closing in on the opportunities by putting in a new flight Honolulu to Oakland.

Thanks, Steven

As an attorney with experience in bankruptcy law, I can also tell you that Southwest couldn't simply cut a check and start puchasing jets from ATA's fleet. Any sale of assets would need to be approved by the bankruptcy court.

ATA filed for Chapter 11, which means this won't be a simple liqidation sale. They might sell the airline as a package or try to restructure its debt and reemerge at a later time to continue operating. Right now, it is too early to tell what will happen.

If SWA is interested and the price and logistics are right (i.e. using former ATA staffers, etc.), then service to Hawaii might be possible. But the proverbial devil is in the details, so only SWA can say if it is interested in exploring the possibilities.

Andy - you say you cringe about a flight to Hawaii...what about our flight service from Hartford (BDL) to Las Vegas which is scheduled at 5 hours and 45 minutes. I think you could get to Hawaii from LAX in about 5 hours...I think. I'm working that flight later in the month...all I have to say is be sure your DVD & Laptop batteries are FULLY charged...and bring a snack, if you get hungrier for something than we are able to serve.

Hope to see you all in the SWA Luv Jets soon!
James
MDW FA

First Aloha, then ATA, now Skybus have gone bankrupt. Who's next?

OK, not quite the same thing, but years ago Delta bought Pan Am's operations to Europe, and they took over the Pan Am A310s and the staff to operate them. The A310s were a new type for Delta, and they were buying the operation from an airline that was not yet bankrupt.

If the services to Hawaii did anything for Southwest, it would be possible to run a ring-fenced operation using former ATA staff and equipment before those staff get other jobs or leave the industry.

I was also one of the unlucky ones who had a trip to Hawaii booked for May.

While I'm not angry about my situation I am angry about how ATA simply left people who showed up for their flights stranded with absolutely no help. Here in Los Angeles a couple and 11 members of their wedding party showed up for their flight and found an empty ticket counter with only a note saying ATA was closed!!

I called Alaska Air within minutes of hearing about the closure on the radio. I was lucky enough to find tickets for the same dates and times as I had booked with ATA. My ATA flight to Hawaii cost me $309 - my new flight is going to cost me $477... but here's what gets me: I checked back with Alaska Air a few hours after I booked my flight for $477 and the same flight is now going for $800!!!

I'm glad I didn't wait until April 7th... you guys are vultures!!

Jim said:
"Therefore, they currently hug the coast when going to Central/South Florida. But they could fly the more direct route across the water in a Ã

I have another question regarding ATA going under than the loss of using RRs to fly to Hawaii. It is already getting difficult to use a single Rapid Reward for flights. Now that there will be many more RRs used for mainland flights that before were using two RRs to get to Hawaii, will it become impossible to get flights using a singe RR. Will the loss of Hawaii trips force everyone to convert 2 RRs to Freedom awards just to be able to get a mainland flight?

ETOPS is more about procedures than the overwater flying. If Southwest wanted to prep for ETOPS, they could do it with their conventional transcon flights rather than the Florida flights. Since you need ETOPS certification before you can go overwater, this is pretty much the only way to do it.

Hawaiian was an interesting case, since they didn't have any reasonable non-overwater routes to prepare with the 767. What they did is use the DC-10 (not a twin, thus not subject to ETOPS restrictions) to prepare so that they were ready to go with 767 ETOPS flying shortly after they took delivery of their first 767.

Ok My question is this. Will Southwest ever start flying to Des Moines Iowa? This is where I live. I was browsing airliners.net and found a pic of arizona 1 in Des Moines from November of 2000. I would love to see them fly to Des Moines.

Bill,
I have a question that's a bit off this topic but something I've been wondering recently that relates to scheduling...does Southwest use all 8 gates in the new ISP terminal? As far as I know there's only around 30 flights a day out of ISP...any plans to get more use out of the gates WN built there with more flights? Thanks!

OK...I'm IN TOO!
I am SOOOOOO for an airpass with SOUTHWEST to FLY to HAWAII?? AND whoever wrote that up there---there are over 3000 of us, not a few hundred, who would proabably fly with you at LEAST ONCE monthly to tell jokes!!! lol lol No seriously, Just previously held airpass holders I think would keep you pretty busy. In as many cities you guys fly out of....if you did a flight a day from every city, well, lets say from every airport taht was at least 75-100 miles away from each other---you;d make a killing!!!!
oh wait, thered be fuel too......ok, lemme think of something else

Excuses.... why can' SW fly parts in as needed and like other airlines fly the mechanics in, yes a slight delay but hopefully not always and contract out any small time services come on..

Bill -

I purchased ATA tickets via Travelocity. I contacted Travelocity and all they offered was their promise that they will try to get me a refund. They suggest I contact my credit card and file a chargeback to dispute the ATA charge, (I believe the ATA site suggests that as well).

As far using the term 'vulture' I think it's quite appropriate as attested to by the dictionary: 'a person or thing that preys, esp. greedily or unscrupulously'

To raise tickets prices almost 100% within hours of ATA's announcement, knowing that 1000's of people are scrambling to find alternative flights, is VERY greedy and preying behaviour... ugly too if you ask me.

More responses, folks!

hc and DGamma....remember, guys, Southwest is doing everything in our power to reroute people that bought Southwest Airlines tickets on flights operated by ATA---**AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE** unlike some airlines offering "standby" to/from Hawaii to ATA ticket holders for $100 each way.

Joe, I have been stuck in the Aloha State for several days waiting on an empty seat on more than one occaision!!!

Lori, if you bought tickets on ATA, not Southwest, then Southwest isn't who you should be calling a "vulture". See above--Southwest is doing everything we can to rebook people AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE to and from Hawaii. The problem is that there are just not a lot of seats, but our friendly Reservations Agents are jumping through hoops to reaccomodate everyone in date-booked order. Those than can be patient and wait for us to get to them for reacomodation will still get to and from Hawaii without any additional fare. Southwest had no say over what ATA did, when they shut down, or what kind of notice they provided. Sorry, Lori, but I can't see how that makes Southwest Airlines a vulture--if anything, we're going way above and beyond to help people that trusted Southwest with their travels to get them where they wanted to go.

And Dolly....we definitely have HotLanta on our radar screens, but as with everything, we just have to put it into the mix with everything else. There are a couple of other markets in the same boat, and we're watching them all carefully and with great interest. BTW, loved you on "American Idol" last week! :)

Bill

With the demise of ATA, it has also left a hole for New York area passengers. The only option now is from MacArthur Airport on Long Island. For many in this area, especially in New Jersey, Long Island is really not an option. Driving to Philadelphia, though further away, is an easier, though not that convenient an option. Southwest should look into service from one of the other smaller New York regional airports such as Stewart in Newburgh, NY (serviced by AIrtran, United, American and JetBlue) or Trenton in central New Jersey (currently only serviced, I believe, by Delta).

Good answer to my question above, but wasn't a "ring-fenced" operation the way that Southwest ran Muse for a few months. That was not the greatest experience for Southwest, because you had to close it down, but you had an airline operating MD-80s - totally different from Southwest fleet, and you got Muse to operate routes that were complementary to Southwest's own operation.

I thought when ATA started doing DFW-MDW, MDW to NY and Washington etc, that ATA became a sort of proxy -Southwest.

Whether Southwest does some things itself, or with a partner - maybe as a partner for a Europe based airline - I know it has to be something that produces a win for Southwest. A WN-win situation.

Oh and it was not free, $200 one-way

I called the 800 number today to try to rebook by 4/26-5/2 flight. There was long hold (30 minutes), probably due to the mad 4/8 rush - but the good news is the SW agent was able to rebook my flights on another carrier, with comparable arrival/departure times, and not a dime out of my pocket! My faith is restored on Southwest, Thank you!

Excellent explanation. As the spouse of a stockholder, I appreciate the fact that Southwest does not jump into markets. You have a tricky issue Rapid Rewards, but $107-a-barrel oil leaves all airlines with tough decisions that focus on survival.

Will it do me any good to call Southwest for a flight in July or will they just tell us to wait in line? My fear is that by the time they get around to calling me they will have decided to just hand out refunds. If that is the case there will be no way my wife and I could afford to go to Hawaii. Which really sucks because my in-laws were giving us there timeshare and that won't happen again anytime soon.

I am very interested to see how my RR tickets will be handled for a 5/4-5/14 trip to Hawaii. This was booked last year for my honeymoon. I have been saving for the last couple years and always fly exclusively on SW so that when this day did come I would be able to fly for free for all of my loyalty that I have showed to SW. If this was not the case and you did not have a great RR program, great CS and did not fly to Hawaii, I would have chose another airline to do business with. This is very troubling that I am left in limbo with so many things on my mind and to add to the fact that my flight is now cancelled and nobody at SW can give me an answer. Just let us know something. I am going to Hawaii one way or another and need to know an answer ASAP. I hope dearly that SW will keep the faith that I have in them and continue to provide the outstanding CS that they always have. SW, don't let me down.

Bill,

While I agree with many of your points, I only ask you review what Southwest did just a few years back in taking a 27% ownership stake in ATA. That is what caused this whole codeshare thing to begin in the firstplace and put us to this point today.

If we were banking on the history of Southwest and their "interests," ATA would probably have been in the SWA fold long ago, but I feel management saw that this wasn't going to be a core competitive strength of theirs when another company bought 100% back in 06 and absolved Southwest of everything but the codeshares and the new destinations.

Still, I feel that when you make a business decision that operates ultimately in your best interest, you can lose money now to make money in the long run. Injecting cash to ATA would have been the best scenario as it would have kept the airline afloat and helped to move all of the stranded Aloha customers back to the Islands, giving you guys an opportunity to get under the hood and see if it would be profitable in the long run. Buying a stake like was previously done in 2004 wouldn't have required anything extra special and given some extra time to explore strategic options for both you and ATA. Even though Southwest wouldn't want ATA long term on its books like it found out from '04-06, more damage is done now in gaining independent codeshare operations with international vendors. Who's left that isn't already part of one of the global codeshare operations? Ryanair?

Just some stuff to gnaw on.

Dear Brian,
Like Andy in the comments above my family has been planning this trip to
Hawaii for about three years. We have actually spent about $300 renewing our rr tickets so that we would have enough to send the 4 of us. This was supposed to be a once in a lifetime trip for my family. The opportunity will not arrise again because my kids will soon be out of the house and into their own lives. I understand that May 3 will probably be the cutoff date for those
who are using rr tickets. This seems a shame because although we
have been booked since January, I know that a person who scheduled a flight
at the last minute in March and planned to leave before May 3 would be able to jump ahead of the rest of us and have his tickets intact. I would be willing
to even pay a little extra if that would help out or would the company this once
let us try to sell a few of our tickets to get the money to purchase elsewhere.
Thankyou for a place to come and talk to someone. Sincerely Ernie

After reading all of the info, finally made it clear why it isn't so easy for another airline to take over the routes to Hawaii. Was booked in May for Maui on Aloha. Can't get tickets now because price is so high on any other airline and to many stops for our age. Would like to know if anyone will be taking the non-stop routes from John Wayne Airport to Maui, in the near future or ever.

Thanks Southwest for the info and maybe we will see you again if we go to Vegas for our 35th anniversary instead of Maui.

Bill,
Wow, it's great to see you answer each question personally. And I will begin by saying, I luv southwest both as a customer and as an investor.

I am dissappointed with Southwest not deciding to buy ATA and their operations to Hawaii. Everyone on the blog mentions the potential problems southwest would have to integrate the ATA's fleet of 737-800s, but no one has mentioned buying and operating ATA's fleet of 757's.

The 757's will be able to carry more passengers in heavily traveled markets, perhaps combining 2 or 3 rush hour flights into one flight on the 757s. You can certify these plans for ETOPS and have them fly to Hawaii with slightly less frequency than the 737's. Although, you will have problems integrating the 757s into the southwest fleet of 737-700s, it would be much better to integrate a larger and more fuel efficient 757 than another 737, which southwest is full of.

I think everyone would just luv to see WN fly to Hawaii.

I just received the sad news that for those of us booked on ATA after May 3 there is no hope of getting to Hawaii. I reissued 4 tickets to make this a "free" flight which cost me $200. Now I have to pay a penalty to the hotel for canceling my reservation. So I get the awards back and extra travel vouchers and it only cost me $450 to go nowhere. I should be happy about this????

Southwest first said they'd accommodate us (in emails and different calls I made)... today they said everybody traveling to Hawaii after May 3rd who booked through Southwest is SOL... go buy a ticket elsewhere.

Hawaii travel is the only reason I've been accumulating Rapid Rewards on Southwest.

I've canceled my Southwest visa card.

Given their flip-flop in "accommodating us", I hope there's a class action suite... as I'd like to cover my losses on this.

Does anybody know of a lawyer starting any class action suits over this?

Thanks,

Chris

Hahahahahahaha

You people are simply great. A company, not southwest, goes bankrupt. Southwest has already turned your money, or your revenue in the form of RR credits over to ATA, and you moan when you get them back. If you bought direct from ATA you may never have gotten them back.

Instead of you moaning about how terrible life is, you should be thanking SW for digging into their own pocket to refund your money. People, I know this is a surprise, but when a company goes bankrupt, that means they HAVE NO MONEY. That means they have already spent your money. Where is your refund coming from....SW bank account. You should be thankful. But, all I hear here is how bad SW is because my trip is effected.

Tell me, if you rent a car through Budget, on the SW site, and the car is not there, whose fault is it? If you rent a hotel through the SW site, and it is not there, whose fault is it.....It is not SW fault. This is the same thing.

Everyone, again, I can't stress enough that we weren't the ones that cancelled your trips....ATA's decision to suddenly cease operations was a very unpleasant surprise to Southwest as well.

Vicki, no, you shouldn't be happy about this--I wouldn't be, and Southwest certainly isn't. However, offering a full refund is simply the best thing we can do for you now--and certainly better than keeping you "on hold" waiting for a solution that isn't possible.

Lisa L, my heart totally goes out to you, your husband, and your kids....I so wish that we could offer you better options.

Chris, we *did* try to accomodate everyone as fairly as possible. When that was no longer possible, we did the fairest and most equitable thing possible: offered full refunds and a travel voucher in addition to your fare.

Tommi, you'll be getting a full refund for the fare you paid *plus* the $200 travel voucher. Your comment made it sound like you thought you were only getting the travel voucher--your fare refund will be in full and to the form of payment originally given when you made your booking. Just wanted to make sure you got complete information.

In response to other comments.....

Joe W., yes, the 757 is a significantly larger aircraft than almost any variant of the 737, but once again, one of Southwest's core efficiencies is using only the Boeing 737--further, using variants of the 737 that seat roughly the same capacity (currently, between 122 and 137 seats). Introducing the 757 would blow so many efficiencies and economies of scale that it would negate our entire cost advantage.

Steve, we are in LUV with South Florida, and we know Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach county residents LUV them some Vegas and Phoenix. We're watching....we're watching....

Dorothy, Daytona Beach isn't in our future anytime soon, primarily because of our 100+ daily departures from Orlando. While it may be a bit of a pain to hop in I-4 to get to the Orlando airport, we hope the breadth of service will make it worth your while. (Nice name, BTW....my late mom's name was Dorothy, so you automatically have a soft spot in my heart!).

Keep the comments coming, guys....I'm paying attention, and will keep up the responses as long as you can stand me!

Bill

There was no flip flopping done at all. The HONEST truth was told by everyone... Live with it... And no class action lawyer would touch this with a 10 foot pole....Southwest did NOTHING wrong....

k

I'm one of those 'fly Southwest everywhere' girls - because my employer utilizes them exclusively.

I am a bridesmaid in a wedding in Hawai'i in July, and decided to turn that honor into a 'gift' to my family...a 'healing' time for us to bond after the unexpected death of my father a few months ago.

I booked FIVE roundtrip tickets for my mom, sis, grandmother and friend to Hawaii for 7/9 - 7/14. I was very blessed - between myself and two friends, I was able to come up with three RR vouchers and that took care of three of the tickets TO Hawaii...but, the rest was my very hard-earned, 'scrimp and save' money...money I set aside diligently every single month.

I had a moment of anxiety when I read of ATA's bankruptcy, but was reassured by the emails I received from Southwest. Surely, you would accomodate us...you had never failed me before.

Until today. When I got the email telling us our flights were to be canceled, I will be honest. I broke down completely. My 'gift' to my family is no longer an option. Not only can noone tell me WHEN I will be refunded for the amounts charged to my credit card...those funds won't even be sufficient enough to purchase TWO roundtrip tickets on another airline....and that's IF I get a refund in a timely manner. As it is, I am watching other airlines and am terrified that getting there myself is going to be a struggle, much less trying to accomodate the others in my party. That dream, I am afraid, went up in smoke the moment that ATA filed bankruptcy.

Do you know what stings even more, Bill? I purchased all of our airfare the moment Southwest opened up the bookings for those dates...way back in January. As Ernie O'Bryan pointed out - -

"This seems a shame because although we have been booked since January, I know that a person who scheduled a flight
at the last minute in March and planned to leave before May 3 would be able to jump ahead of the rest of us and have his tickets intact."

I agree with Ernie....in this case, our careful planning actually hurt us. Is that the message you want to send to your faithful contingent?

Yes, I appreciate the fact you're handing out travel vouchers for our 'inconvenience'...but those vouchers won't get me, my mother, sister, grandmother and friend to Hawai'i in July.

Bill, I am glad you didn't have to hear my mother sob on the other end of the phone when I broke the news of the cancelations. This is a trip she has been looking forward to since shortly after my father's death. It's been a bright point, one of the few positive things we have been able to do -- and the gist of the email today just frustrated me to no end. Basically, it came across as "we can't help all of you, so we aren't going to help any of you". I know that my assessment is harsh...but, so is the reality. I planned, I saved, I booked early...and I am left with few options and a MUCH higher financial burden...one that I am sure I can't overcome in the time remaining.

I wish Southwest had taken into consideration those of us who booked early and are thus already financially tied to you. You have held my money since January...that's money that could have been used to purchase fares from another carrier by now. I know you have no control over ATA's financial downfall....but, Southwest has had control of my money and control of our (now) non-existent trip.

I'll be honest - I don't know that I want to give Southwest another chance. Yes, I will now have quite a bit of voucher credit coming...but it is voucher credit from a company that told me today that my hard work, planning and faithfulness to this airline doesn't warrant them 'making it right' for me and my family.

Quote: Does anybody know of a lawyer starting any class action suits over this?

How are you going to sue a company that went bankrupt? Everything the company owns is going to be auctioned off and most money will go to the creditors and debt owed so there won't be much left. If any!

Okay, it was pretty petty of me to complain about a couple of hundred dollars when I'm still fortunate enough to be able to take my dream vacation. And it really is not about the money, it's about being lied to. It makes you feel stupid and angry.

I don't believe that Southwest lied on purpose. I understand and knew from the beginning that flights would become very full and the prices would go way up. Southwest reaccommodating everyone would obviously make the flights even fuller and even more expensive. But Southwest told me they'd handle it, so I thought they must know the situation better than an ordinary person like me.

I guess they didn't. How's that to instill confidence in customers and the investors?

And to those who want everyone to jump from joy getting a refund: I take that for granted, since we bought tickets from Southwest for a Southwest flight. The flight being operated by ATA does not change that. Southwest would be on very shaky legal ground if they didn't issue a refund. And I doubt they are so bad at writing contracts that they would actually have paid ATA for the flights before people actually flew. This is not the same as with rental cars and hotels for which Southwest just acts as a travel agent.

I also am VERY unhappy (who isn't) but life goes on...

Bill, can you expand on the Vouchers we'll be receiving?

The $200 travel voucher - Is it one per passenger or one per reservation (with mutliple passengers)?

Is there an expiration date on the voucher? Usage restrictions? Are they conbinable/transferable?

Thanks.

Chris, I fully and absolutely stand by what I said. Where I come from, a "lie" means a statement that is made with deliberate intent to deceive or to convey false impression. Southwest never did that in the case of ATA's sudden shutdown; every bit of information, every comment made on this blog, on our website, and by every Reservations Agent in our network, reflected what at the time was our current-state, good-faith plan. I know for a fact that many options were explored for reaccomodation for Customers traveling after the initial 30-day period. None of them worked out. In the end, the best accomodation we could do for folks that had bought Southwest tickets using ATA service to Hawaii from 5/03 onwards was to refund your entire fare, give you a "we're sorry" voucher (which is FAR more than any other airline has, or would, do), let you make alternative plans (whether to Hawaii or to a different destination). Then to make sure we are fully available and transparent on the issue, we've opened it up here on the blog to keep everyone up to speed *and* to allow you to vent your frustrations. Not only does that indicate to me that Southwest didn't intentionlly mislead or decive, to me it shows that we've gone above and beyond--to not only keep you posted on what was happening, but to try and make it whole.

We may have to agree to disagree here, Chris, but you're welcome to opinion--and my heartfelt disappointment for you, and for the situation, remains.

OH MY GOODNESS.........BABIES BABIES...........YES, ITS SAD THAT ATA SUNK, BUT SW DOESN'T NEED TO DO ANY FAVORS FOR YOU BECAUSE OF IT, YET THEY ARE.......WHEN 9/11 CAME, I HAD A FLIGHT BOOKED ON DELTA, AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD ACCOMODATE ANY CHANGES BUT ON THEIR TERM....WHICH WAS YOU HAD TO RESCHEDULE YOUR FLIGHT TO BE FLOWN WITHIN 6 MONTHS............I TOLD THEM I DIDN'T WANT TO FLY AT ALL AND ASKED FOR A REFUND (EXACTLY 2 WEEKS AFTER 9/11) AND THEY REFUSED MY REFUND......I ESCALATED IT TO THE SUPERVISOR AND SHE SAID I WOULD NOT BE GETTING A REFUND AND I WOULD HAVE TO RESCHEDULE AS TOLD......NO IF'S AND'S OR BUT'S..SO I LOST 350.00 DOLLARS...........MAD, ABSOLUTELY, FAIR, NO.............BUT, WE ALL KNOW LIFE ISN'T FAIR..........

SW IS GREAT........NO OTHER AIRLINES WOULD GIVE YOU BACK YOUR MONEY OR RR AND AN ADDITIONAL 200 DOLLAR VOUCHER.......AND, AS WE KNOW WE HAVE NO GUARANTEE FOR WHAT PRICE GAS WILL BE FROM ONE MINUTE TO THE NEXT, SO WHY SHOULD WE ALSO BLAME SW CAUSE FLIGHTS YOU OBSERVED WHEN HEARING OF THIS WERE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF..........??????????????? ITS NOT SOUTHWEST'S FAULT, THAT THE OTHER AIRLINES HAVE INCREASED THEIR PRICES BECAUSE "THEY CAN".........CALL THEM DIRECTLY AND COMPLAIN TO THEM......SOUTHWEST HAS NO CONTROL OVER OTHER AIRLINES PRICING.....COME ON FOLKS...........

THERE IS NO DOUBT WHEN THOSE AGENTS TOLD YOU TO "HANG IN THERE" THEY WOULD BE ACCOMODATING YOU, THAT THEY MEANT IT........BUT AS WE KNOW, THIS SITUATION WAS BIGGER THEN THEY EVEN ANTICIPATED AND VERY COSTLY FOR THEM, ESPECIALLY AFTER ANTICIPATING SENDING OUT THOSE VOUCHERS.......I PRAISE THEM FOR TRYING....NO, YOU AREN'T GOING ON YOUR HONEYMOON, OR TO WEDDINGS, BUT IN READING THESE BLOGS, FOR HEAVENS SAKE, YOU MADE YOUR OWN DECISION BY WAITING IT OUT.......THEY MAY HAVE TOLD YOU TO SIT TIGHT, BUT WE ALL HAVE CHOICES AS TO WHAT WE "KNOW" WE SHOULD DO.........I FOR ONE WOULD HAVE BOOKED THE ALTERNATIVE FLIGHTS ANYWAY, JUST TO MAKE SURE I HAD "BACKUP".......NO, I'M NOT RICH, JUST OBSERVANT, AND WHEN THIS HAPPENED, AND BOOM, 3 AIRLINES IN ONE WEEK, ONE BEING A MAJOR CARRIER OF THE ISLANDS, HELLO, IT DIDN'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE OUT IF I WAS GOING TO GET THERE, I'D HAVE TO DO SO ON MY OWN, AND QUICKLY............

LAWSUITS LAWSUITS LAWSUITS......YOU ARE THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT MAKES ALL OF US "SICK" BECAUSE OF YOUR "BLAME THE OTHER PERSON FOR NOT TAKING RESPONSIBLITY YOUR OWN DECISIONS" ATTITUDE IS JUST OVERWHELMING............EVERYTHING HAS TO COME TO A "LAWSUIT"..........THAT IS WHAT RAISES TAXES, INSURANCES, FEES, PRICES OF TICKETS, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE "OWED"............NO ONE IS "OWED" ANYTHING, NOR SHOULD ANYONE EXSPECT ANYTHING FROM ANYONE............

HOW ABSOLUTELY UNCARING ALL OF YOU ARE, AS THERE ARE MANY THERE WAITING TO GET BACK HOME.......DO YOU THINK THEY ARE HAVING A FREAKIN PICNIC??????????????? THEY ARE WAITING THERE TURN, AND NO DOUBT, SW WILL GET THEM BACK HOME...

OUR WORLD IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTS TO BLAME AND NOT TAKE RESPONSIBLITY, SAYING THE AGENT SAID THIS AND SAID THAT..........SO WHAT? THOSE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT ARE PROMISING NOT TO RAISE TAXES.......DO YOU BELIEVE THAT TOO?

FLY ANOTHER AIRLINE AND DON'T COME BACK TO SW, AS IT WILL LEAVE MORE ROOM ON THE PLANES FOR ME AND MY FAMILY......YOU SAY YOU'LL NEVER FLY SW, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT IS A LIE.....NOW, WE SHOULD HOLD YOU TO THAT, AND IF WE FIND YOU ON SW EVER, WE SHOULD SUE YOU FOR TELLING US A LIE.........HOW DOES THAT GRAB YOU.........

LIFE GOES ON FOLKS AND IF YOU DECIDED TO MOVE TO ANOTHER AIRLINE, THANKS FOR YOUR SEATS!.......THANK YOU SOUTHWEST FOR WORKING YOUR "ASSETS" OFF IN TRYING TO ACCOMODATE THE SELFISH......ATA IS THE ONE AT FAULT, NOT YOU......BUT, FOR SOME REASON THESE SELFISH PEOPLE HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE TO BLAME....I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT THAT YOU GAVE MANY MANY OF US THIS PAST YEAR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE OPTION TO GO TO HAWAII FOR SO LITTLE..........GOSH, YOU ARE WONDERFUL!!!! SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.........

I can not believe that how some one can close doors taking peopleÃ

Bill: A good explanation.

As upset as I initially was, I realize Southwest had the best intentions when they promised to reaccommodate everyone. Unfortunately that can-do spirit made a bad situation even worse for a lot of us.

Bill, I really appreciate that you are here on behalf of Southwest, reiterating your sympathy and regret over this. You seem very sincere and I thank you for the opportunity to vent. (At the same time, I do hope our feedback is reported so that this kind of thing might be avoided in the future.)

Hey DISMAYED

Turn your caps lock off. I completely skipped over your post because I hate it when people type in all caps! It shows that you don't know how to use proper capitalization. It makes sentences difficult to read as it is an uncommon way of typing.

MY DEAR EQUALLY DISMAYED......FIRST OFF, SYMPATHY IS THERE FOR MANY, THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE AT ALL.....JERILYN'S EMAIL WAS MOST TOUCHING AND I AGREE WITH EVERYONE WHO IS DISAPPOINTED BY THIS UPROAR, THANKS AGAIN TO ATA........THE ISSUE IS THE BLAME GAME TO SOUTHWEST..........SOUTHWEST DIDN'T HAVE TO FIND A PARTNER TO GIVE MANY THE PRIVILEGE OF FLYING TO HAWAII FOR CHEAP, BUT THEY FOUND THIS TOOL FOR ALL OF US TO USE, AND BECAUSE IT WENT BELLY UP FOLKS ARE BLAMING SOUTHWEST.......THEY SHOULD BE BLAMING ATA......MANY FOLKS WERE USING THEIR RR REWARDS FOR THE TRIP, BUT HOW ABOUT THOSE WHO PAID "CASH" TO ATA DIRECTLY? THEY ARE OUT COMPLETELY.... AT LEAST SW HAS THE DECENCY TO REFUND WHATEVER AND "MORE".......FYI, I HAVE MY OWN ISSUES ABOUT OUR HAWAII TRIP, BUT CHOSE NOT TO AIR IT BECAUSE ITS OF NO VALUE TO ANYONE ELSE BUT US. NOW THAT ALL KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE FACED WITH, YOU HAVE TO ADJUST AND MAKE CHANGES......."YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT I HAVE THE MEANS AND ARE HANDLING THIS FLAWLESSLY BECAUSE I'M SUCH A GENIUS " PER YOUR WORDING..BEING UPSET IS EXPECTED, BUT BLAMING SWA FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS TOTALLY OUT OF THEIR CONTROL IS JUST PLAIN "WRONG"..........LIKE I SAID "NO ONE EVER SAID LIFE WAS FAIR"...NO ONE SEEMS TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT MANY LOST THEIR JOBS BECAUSE OF ATA, AND ALL PEOPLE CARE ABOUT IS WANTING TO GET TO HAWAII.......HOW ABOUT THE FAMILIES THAT DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO PAY THEIR HOUSE PAYMENT FOR THIS MONTH?????? FOOD FOR THEIR FAMILY????????SENSITIVITY??? I DIDN'T HERE YOUR COMPASSION HERE.... I DIDN'T HEAR YOU SPEAK ABOUT THESE FORMER WORKERS...........WELL, WE ALL HAVE CHOICES AND THERE ARE OTHER AIRLINES THAT WILL GLADLY GET YOU THERE, THE DIFFERENCE IS YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE PIPER OR MAKE OTHER PLANS......IT ISN'T FAIR I KNOW.....EXSPECTING SWA TO MAKE IT WORK FOR OVER 20,000 WHO HAD PLANS TO HAWAII WILL ONLY ENHANCE THE CHANCES OF SWA GOING BELLY UP, OR RAISING THERE PRICES SO HIGH THAT NO ONE WILL BE GIVEN THE PRIVILEGE TO FLY FOR FUN......

EVERYONE BEING UPSET ISN'T THE ISSUE, ALL THESE SWA WORKERS HAVE HAD THERE CUP RUNNETH OVER ALSO WITH YELLS, NASTY WORDS, HANG UPS ETC., BUT CALLING THEM LIARS CONTINUALLY DURING AN EVENT THEY HAD NO CONTROL OF, AND "UP FRONT" DID MEAN WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT TRYING TO ACCOMODATE EVERYONE, WAS OVERWHELMING FOR THEM ALSO.....BUT, REFUNDING AND GIVING THE ADDITONAL 200 DOLLAR VOUCHER IS ALSO "AN ACCOMODATION"....AND THE BEST THEY COULD DO...

SO "EQUALLY DISMAYED", "you have a wonderful day also" AND TRY TO REALIZE THE DIFFERENCE IN BEING "UPSET" AND DOWN RIGHT "NASTY" TO A COMPANY THAT HAD TRIED TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBLITY OF ANOTHER AIRLINES FAILURES, TRIED TO KEEP THE PROMISES TO ITS FLYERS THAT ATA FAILED TO DO, AND STILL SEEMS TO GET KICKED IN THE FACE, OVER AND OVER.......THOSE WHO BOUGHT TKTS DIRECTLY FROM ATA ARE OUT OF LUCK ...WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION FOR ALL THESE FOLKS WHO HAVE LOST THERE MONEY AND WILL NEVER SEE A DIME OF IT???????...AT THIS MOMENT AM I GLAD I'M AN ATA CUSTOMER OR A SWA CUSTOMER?????????? NO BRAINER! again, have a great weekend...*...(typed especially for you so no one else will see....)

Dear DISMAYED,
I appreciate your input but I think you've misunderstood my point. I am certainly not "blaming" Southwest for ATA's demise, nor did I expect Southwest to fix it. However, they promised they would rebook me at their cost and I took them at their word, instead of rebooking elsewhere as I had planned to do. So what I DID expect from Southwest was for them to follow through on what they told me they would do. Please understand they didn't say, "We'll try to rebook you," "We may be able to rebook you," they said, "We WILL rebook you" and stated it was only a matter of time.

What part of this or my previous post is "nasty" toward Southwest?? Your own post was downright hostile toward complete strangers who are only here to vent frustration at a very disappointing turn of events.

It seems to me you may be more closely affiliated with Southwest than you let on...

In any case, you're absolutely right that there are situations more dire than mine or Jerilyn's or even the unfortunate ATA employees who are out of work because of this. While I believe compassion for ALL is extremely important, you can be compassionate and still retain your right to express frustration when you feel you've been wronged.

Thanks for reading and I really do hope you have a nice day.

A ticket is a ticket no matter what a customer used to pay for it, whether its cold hard cash, or frequent flyer credits they earned for being a loyal customer. Southwest knew the risks of entering into codeshare agreements. If Southwest sells you a ticket with a Southwest flight number, that becomes a contract that Southwest is legally and morally obligated to fulfill, no matter what name is actually on the plane that takes you to that destination.

A contractor may subcontract out some work, but the general contractor is still ultimately responsible for the quality of work. This is no different than codeshare partnerships. Sure, ATA went out of business, but those are the risks when entering into partnerships and passing off your customers to somebody else. You are left holding the bag.

It is still fully within Southwest's power to fulfill their contract. Plenty of seats remain to Hawaii on other airlines. They may not be available for the price Southwests wants, but if Southwest actually cares about their customers, they'd do whatever is necessary to make sure people's wedding plans, anniversaries, and dream vacations aren't ruined.

Southwest has transformed itself into just another typical beancounter company. Southwest places a value on their most dedicated customers (and their dream weddings), those that fly Southwest almost exclusively, and those that use their co-branded credit card, at less than a $700 ticket to Hawaii. Pathetic. The LUV is gone.

Bill,
I am not able to find out the amount of the voucher and if there is one for each person that was traveling or one per reservation. I have seen this question asked, but can't find your response to it.

I am very happy that I am receiving a refund and voucher. I was lucky and immediately made my own new reservation on the day I found out about ATA. I just had a feeling that SWA was not going to be able accommodate all travelers to HI because they don't have planes that normally fly there.

Thanks SW for the refund and voucher!!!

You know what Bill? You are Ã

JAY FROM TEXAS,

It seems to me the reason so many people's plans have been disrupted ... wonderful plans that they had put much time, energy, and hope into ... is that ATA abruptly and without warning ceased operations.

Southwest tried to do the impossible to address this problem, which was not of our own making, and perhaps we should be blamed for that. That is up to you I suppose.

HOWEVER, I can assure you that your implication that Bill Owen's compassion is less than 100% genuine (for you and others whose dreams have been dashed) is WRONG! Bill is widely known for his compassion (and for a squirrel in his freezer, but that's another story) and he is the creator of a semi-official Southwest program called Random Acts of Kindness, which is exactly what it sounds like.

I sincerely hope things work out for you and your kids.

Bob

Cassie -

I appreciate your comment. Same for Bob...and Bill. I am not a cold, callous person, and never have been accused of being so - - in fact, I have never uttered one rude word or launched a personal attack against a Southwest Employee in the decades that I have flown the airline. Yes, I said decades. My first 'real' Southwest flight was when I was in diapers. For those of your scoring at home...I am 32 years of age. According to my mom, I got my 'Southwest Wings' while still in utero. As a wee child traveling alone, I was buckled into my seat by caring, compassionate flight attendants and walked off the plane to greet relatives while my hand was held by one of your staff. 'Flight' has always been synonymous with 'Southwest' to me.

I have flown the skies between Dallas and Houston, Midland and Dallas, Dallas and San Antonio, Dallas and Harlingen, Dallas and Corpus Christi, Midland to Houston, Midland to Las Vegas...the list goes on and on and on. I can safely say that I have flown to/from just about Texas destination you serve....and a few outside of this great state.

Why? Because Southwest was raised 'right'...the same way I was raised. I gave my hard-earned money to your airline above all others...because I believed in your principles and the way you treated me. I can't begin to tell the stories of the flights I have been on....winning bottles of champagne in a 'trivia contest' on the way back from Vegas (thanks to some quickly formed alliances with fellow passengers)...being serenaded by quirky attendants and even singing in return...conspiring with fellow passengers to write hilarious messages to the pilots on cocktail napkins ( the flight attendants were also co-conspirators) one night during a HORRIFIC storm (Dear Captain, Keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down, please. Love, the nauseous passengers in the back).

I have almost 30 years of memories of flying Southwest. (I would say MORE than 30 years of memories...but the time between gestating and about...oh, age four are a little bit hazy.)

That's probably why I am most heartbroken. Because this was the first time I ever felt like a 'confirmation number'. The first time I ever felt like a fare. The first time I ever felt like a bottom-line decision.

I don't blame Bill...I don't blame Bob...I don't blame Cassie. You do your jobs...you do it well. Sadly, somewhere...someone took a look at the numbers and made a decision. A decision that YOU have to live with...that you have to explain, defend, spin....however you want to take it. No, you're not happy. I'm not happy. And, according to what we have been told...the (former) holders of those 20,000 flights aren't happy, either.

No, it's not fair. It's not fair that it happened...or that we were told one thing...then saw another thing occur. It's not fair that you have to defend Southwest...a company you love so much that you have committed to sharing the 'spirit' every day as a part of your career.

Even in my disappointment, I understand. It doesn't make it hurt any less...but I understand. Does that mean I will fly Southwest again myself? I don't know. It will take a lot to win back decades of my loyalty...if it does occur. That doesn't mean I HATE Southwest. I just don't TRUST them any longer. It's been said more than once in these comments that the true complaint is that a number of people held off on trying to rebook because of the assurances from Southwest. If they had been booked on any other carrier...they wouldn't have taken that carrier's word for it. I know that if any OTHER airline had made the same assurances, I would have been borrowing money, raiding my 401k or knocking down a convenience store or two to book elsewhere. (Okay, maybe I am kidding about the 401k.)

But, Southwest's word meant something to all of us. And here's a lesson for 'next time'. Say "We don't know." Admit that you aren't SURE if you can accomodate everyone, but that you are working 'round the clock to do so. Say that you have every intention of making it right for the travelers, but that you cannot offer any guarantee or assurance...and allow them to cancel and offer timely refunds. (Another passenger on the same ill-fated flight to Hawaii was told that if he hadn't called in to actually cancel his flight for a refund that it would be approximately 60 days before Southwest returned his money. Whether that's accurate or not...that is what he was told when calling.)

Take a cue from Karen, the absolutely WONDERFUL woman I spoke to on Thursday, April 10, 2008. I read the email notifying all of us of the cancelations...and I called her to simply get more information. She was the epitome of 'professionalism'. Extremely kind, understanding...everything I could want in a customer service capacity from Southwest. She was VERY upfront and communicative. No 'spin'. She admitted that she had just gotten the cancelation information, and even asked for a moment a couple of times during our conversation so that she could review the pertinent information before answering specific questions. AND....when there was a SHRED of doubt...that lovely lady uttered the most HONEST and beautiful words on earth, "I don't know." She was honest with me...not knowing if I would accept the honesty or would turn into a vicious harpy once I heard those words. (See above, never uttered rude word or personally attacked a Southwest employee).

Karen gave it to me straight, even at the risk of upsetting me (or the countless OTHER individuals she had to deal with that day). I hope that SOMEONE at Southwest lets her know that she is the ONLY reason that I would EVER consider returning to the airline..if I do. So, Bill....do me a favor. Pass this along to Karen. Find her. I don't have her last name...but I talked to her on Thursday, April 10, 2008...sometime between 1pm and 3pm. (I'm sorry I can't remember the exact time, I was too busy wiping away tears of absolute frustration to check the clock.) All I know was that this 'Karen' was working her last scheduled day of the week (according to her comment that this was her 'Friday')...and that she was the most transparent, honest and most believable part of this whole nightmare....not for what she told me...but for what she admitted she COULDN'T tell me....because she did not know. On top of that, she was kind, arranged to cancel my bookings for me..ensure the Rapid Reward credits were returned to my friends' accounts, made sure I got the email cancelation of the flights. She was the one silver lining in the dark cloud that descended that day. I want her to know how much I appreciated her. (I would be grateful if you did this, I am an HR Manager here in Dallas....I believe in recognizing employees for doing the 'right' thing...even when they risk a negative reaction. It's especially important in Karen's case...as she most likely dealt with furious individuals all day and would otherwise never realize that her kindness to me made a difference.) And, my personal recommendation would be to give her a nice bonus. Equal to what I've spent over the last 24 months in flight at Southwest. Like I said, Karen is the only reason I would ever consider coming back to the airline. THAT woman is the 'spirit' of Southwest.

As an aside...I am still going to Hawaii...only because of my duty to the bride. A friend booked me today on American using his AA miles (since I am still waiting for my refund from Southwest) and I am going to reimburse him. What's the over/under on those flights? Should I start praying now? :)

Jerilyn

Bill, I hope this doesn't stop Southwest from trying to find another company to partner with as soon as possible that flies to Hawaii. We are upset but if
something happened with Southwest where we could still use these tickets
to go to Hawaii in the future in my case I would be greatful. I hope the company sees how great a marketing tool the Hawaii carrot was for them
and sets out to make it happen again. It would be easy to see all these angry people and conclude never to place the company where this would ever happen again. Delta just merged with Northwest which flies to Hawaii. I know
Southwest the great company that it is can in time save the day.

While we are all pretty upset about the recent events, first with Aloha and then ATA, it is of hope that Southwest will think about flying to Hawaii in the future. We have flown Southwest for a number of years and hope to continue to do so in the future.

My husband and I purchased a gift card for our daughter and her finance to be able to fly to Hawaii for their honeymoon in June. It was such a shock when she called that morning and said that ATA went bankrupt. The rub with all of this is that no matter what we tried to do to get this resolved through Southwest, all we got was what the rules were. This is what surprised me the most. I do understand that after listening to people ask for exceptions, etc. all day long that it could probably get annoying after awhile, however, no one would budge on the rules.

I do have a concern about gift cards. While it was generous of Southwest to give our money back, it did not go back into the original format, as was stated in so many of the emails and even in this blog. It was handled as if you cancelled the flight yourself and now there is a time limit on how long you can keep that gift card.

Based on the three times I called and the other two times my daugher called, they weren't budging from their decision in customer service.

Hey John-
I can totally answer that for you. Right now the schedule is going to be released tomorrow April 18, 2009. We at reserations are totally ready for all your calls. :)

Jerilyn-
I am so thankful that you found Karen. It always makes me smile whenever I hear about my peers going beyond what is asked.

I completely understand everybody's frustration whether you were going to Hawaii or stuck there. I am a Southwest Flight Attendant based in Chicago. I am quite frustrated with the holding company of ATA, Global Aero Logistics, who also owns World Airways and North American. The holding company did not go out of business and should be held liable for their decision to just close the doors without assuring that passengers could at least get back home. As for Southwest, I love my airline. We treat the customers like gold, as we should. I work my tail off on every flight to ensure that passengers have a great experience. When Southwest decided in 2005 to codeshare with ATA, I had my doubts. I worked at ATA as a flight attendant and was laid off after 3 years of service. The airline was ever far from stable to begin with. The combination at the time was very beneficial to Southwest and their customers because ATA was basically our void where needed. Although Southwest may have made promises, I truly believe our company did the best that they could given the circumstances of Aloha also going out of business. No other airline is going to put you on their flights for free, but they made sure they raised those fares real fast...I think that Southwest made the best decision by refunding your tickets plus giving you a travel voucher for your inconvenience. They have nearly 40,000 passengers to deal with due to the demise of ATA. And we are truly trying folks. There are no flights to put you on in the near or even mid-long term future. I am giving free drinks on the plane for folks who were abandoned by ATA. We are doing our best in a situation that created turmoil for Southwest, the poor employees of ATA, and most of all, OUR CUSTOMERS! We do care and I really hope you all give us another chance. Unfortunate things happen, but for the most part, Southwest has truly given this country the opportunity to afford to fly. So on behalf of myself and my company, I truly want to apologize and look forward to meeting and conversating with many of you on my future flights.

Bill while your explanation of why SW can't and won't begin flights to and from Hawaii makes sense that's not the real issue. The real issue is SW should never have partnered with ATA without verifying and monitoring there financial health. Your failure to ensure your business partner was viable is only compounded by how poorly you took care of those of us with tickets for travel after May 3. Your explanation that there are not enough seats available to accommodate those of us with travel after May 3 is a blatant lie. The real issue is cost to SW. I was able to find seats on 3 different airlines for my travel dates in late May but at a substantially higher price than my tickets with SW and ATA. So I had to make a choice cancel my familyÃ

As in my previous post...Has anyone addressed Global Aero Logistics, the holding company for ATA who is STILL in business. ATA Holdings changed their name to Global Aero Logistics and purchased World Airways and North American Airlines. Mattlin Patterson is a firm who gave Global Aero Logistics the capital to run all operations. Mattlin Patterson decided to cuts its losses in ATA, and still keep World and North American. Southwest can only do so much. When you code share with a company, you are not obligated to share all financial information with another company. With Global Aero Logistics and Mattlin Patterson providing capital, ATA was much more stable than a standalone entity. As for all the passengers, yes, I would be extremely frustrated. But Southwest cannot pay for nearly 40,000 people to take United or American for $1000 a ticket. Its just not feasible. Southwest did give anyone affected travel vouchers on top of their refund. Unfortunately people, we are beginning to see pricing in the airline industry at where it needs to be. If you got tickets for $300-$600 roundtrip, that was great. But thats the reason everyone will go out of business like ATA. Its not your fault, but the airlines need to charge much higher fares to cover costs. Everyone is so used to flying for thrifty fares and expecting the world. Well the airlines need to charge 3 times the amount that they are charging now, and maybe everyone wouldn't get nickled and dimed for amenities...and we wouldn't have to worry about failing airlines.

nsx,

It's good that you admit that your theory is based on inference, not facts.

Once ATA ceased operations, there was no path to make everyone's plans whole. You can debate about what might have been a better or worse path to follow, but it seems pretty clear that there is not enough capacity to accommodate many, perhaps most, of the people who were affected by ATA's actions.

No matter what Southwest did, many people would be frustrated and upset, with good reason. But that reason is not primarily anything Southwest did, or did not, do. It is the fact that two airlines serving Hawaii went out of business in a very short period.

Nsx, forgive my delay in responding (and yes, blog readers, IÃ

Bill, thank you for your gracious reply to my post. Your explanations are beginning to sink in. If I'm still unsure of all the facts, it's a cinch that many others are also unsure.

You wrote:
>if you refer back to the original press release we specifically stated that Ã

I want to express that I share the opinions of many of the bloggers above that it is unforgivable for SW to have renegged on the re-accomadation promise. I remember feeling like I would be"taken care of" when I first call the reservation desk after the news. I ask the representative multiple times to state and re-state that my family would be "re-acommodated" at no charge. I was absolutely promised this multiple times. I just got off the phone and of course as all of you know, everything has changed. So I'll spend 5G's to get my daughter to her soccer tourneyment in Hawaii. Thank God I have the means to do it, but SW which I believe was the only airline with a soul, has now lost their special status. It was all so avoidable. Sign me up for the class action law suite.

I got my RR tickets redeposited into my account but I still haven't gotten the travel vouchers that I was promised. Anyone know how long that's going to take?

I agree with the comment about flying to Des Moines. I am a loyal Southwest passenger, both for work and for pleasure, but when it comes time to visit my parents in Des Moines, I have to take my business somewhere else. Please please please start flying to DSM!

Okay, so it's expensive and there is no way for Southwest itself to do the Hawaii haul, but why not start talks with Mark Dunkerley, CEO of Hawaiian Airlines about this. Hawaiian already services the west coast and some mid-Atlantic states as well. They have the routes, the planes, and of course being Hawaii's #1 airline for decades, the knowledge of the Hawaii market as well as the aloha. HTA (Hawaii Tourism Authority) is looking for creative ways to bring tourists back to the islands during this major downturn in the economy. Hawaii has never seen things this bad even during the Gulf war and post 9/11. Hawaii's Governor Lingle has already earmarked 12 million dollars to HTA for marketing for 2009. Work with HTA and Hawaiian Airlines to see if some of these funds could be diverted to help subsidize passengers who have a choice between the Caribbean or Mexico, but choose Hawaii instead. Hawaii is like no other place on earth. Some Hawaii lovers will come to the islands no matter how much the fares are. Others who have only dreamed now find their dreams lost. It has no problem selling itself, but there simply needs to be a major effort help offset fares. I think it's well worth the effort.

This is a long dead thread, but here are my 2c.

I recently moved to Hawaii, and I fly very often on work. I would be overly polite if I say that airlines flying between Hawaii and the mainland are incompetent, unpunctual, arrogant and an outright disaster, with the one exception of Hawaiian---but the flights by Hawaiian are way too few and their schedule is not very convenient for business travel.

I would love to see the efficiency and friendly service I have come to associate with Southwest serve the non-tourist market and the segment that doesn't consider their airport time to be part of the holiday. So far, there is not one airline that comes close to serving this need. Something for Southwest to think about.

Bill: Is there any update on the potential of Southwest starting routes to Hawaii? As the previous person posted the $620 "Special Fare's" on HA show the need for competion, as only Southwest can offer.
MC

I too would like to see Southwest (or someone) get into the business of flying from the mainland to Hawaii. Most of my family is there and trying to afford regular trips over to see them is impossible. The older generation is dying off and I can't afford to visit. My mother had a stroke in May and is only now able to consider traveling. I am trying to get her to Oahu to see her aging sister before it is too late for either one of them. But the cost of flights, not to mention all the other expense is making it prohibitive!

Hawaiian Airlines could afford to be competive back when they had competition - Now they are just being greedy and taking advantage of an unfortuate situlation.

Hawaii isn't just about honeymooners, vacations and luxury holidays! It is populated by a whole bunch of people with a whole bunch of relatives that live elsewhere that can't afford to see them! SHAME ON YOU HAWAIIAN AIRLINES!!!!

Sincerely,
One pissed off Wahini.